Subject: RQ Discussions 18 First Distribution: June 29, 1991 ====================================================================== From: Andrew Bell (bell@cs.unc.edu) Subject: Re: RQ discussion 16 In RQ Discussions 17, Martin Crim wrote: > INFINITY is not, in Glorantha, the ability to create something out >of nothing. Only chaos has shown any ability to approach that, and it only >really pulls something into Glorantha from the chaos void around it. This is true in the case of permanent creation. However, the illusion- type spells, both divine and sorcerous, are able to create temporary substance, as is the Enhance Size sorcery spell. Illusion in fantasy games has really been given dual usage. First there is the "physical" illusion, where the magic creates an image that sends out real light that the viewer sees. Such illusions don't depend on beguiling the viewer, nor can force of will resist such effects. On the other hand, such illusions should be harmless unless they disguise something dangerous -- a phantom floor over a pit and the like. The other type of illusion is the mental one, where the mage gets the spell recipients to believe they percieve (or do not percieve) something. Since it is a form of mental control, the wielder of such an illusion Force of will or evidence that their senses are being fooled should be useful in countering such illusions. Gloranthan illusion spells fall into both categories. The phantom (sense) spells and the illusory (sense) spells are both extensions of the former, where little pieces of reality are temporarily created by the caster. Meanwhile, the invisibility (now called Chameleon) spell is an example of the latter type, as can be seen from its description. Illusion really needs two aspects: one for simulation of reality, and one for mental trickery. The Truth rune is most appropriately opposed to the latter, although it is not entirely inappropriate in opposition to the former. Finally, many of the "creation"-type spells are really modifying or even dominating spells, rather than true creation spells. Create Basilisk and Create Vampire, for example, don't actually create anything. Likewise, the Create Familiar (characteristic) spells are generally transferral of attributes, and the spell description specifically mentions gathering material for adding size to a creature -- smoke as the body of a wraith. For such modifications, the mobility rune (also often described as the change rune) is probably more appropriate. -Andrew ====================================================================== From: mad@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Ken McKinney cleverly disguised as Michael Derry) Subject: response to comments on my sorcery system comments on my sorcery system: Off-the-top-of-my-head comments re: alternate sorcery rules: INFINITY is not, in Glorantha, the ability to create something out of nothing. Only chaos has shown any ability to approach that, and it only really pulls something into Glorantha from the chaos void around it. Thus, there should be some other rune to use in summoning (not creating) substances. Only one en in Dragonewt. It's Drago-newt, not dragon-newt, in honor of the Duke Recreational Adventure Gaming Organization, which was what DRAGO used to stand for (though last I heard it stood for nothing in particular). TRADE makes an excellent sorcery rune. Although it shares some characteristics with HARMONY, it is the only rune associated with language. Have fun playtesting! -M Well, I had some problems with Infinity too, and originally wanted to use the fertility rune instead. But it seemed silly for a create fire spell to use fertility and fire, since one doesn't associate "growing" with elemental forces. I used Infinity because it seemed to fit the bill better than anything else and because it was so ill-defined that I didn't think I would conflict with anything else. One can argue that creation is the most powerful force in glorantha, and its rune would be the most powerful rune. Well, Arachne Solara owns the infinity rune, and she is definitely the most powerful god. But maybe your're right, and I'm trying to be too much like Ars Magica and put magic into glorantha that doesn't belong there. Do you think that the creation-type spells should be treated as summonings? That would imply that the Magic rune is the mechanism to use. But magic is needed as a form rune, so we can have spells that affect magic. Also, summoning as is is a very time consuming process (one hour per mp of the creature) and is dealt with outside of the 3 main magic systems. Or alternatively, should there be no creation spells in the sorcery system? I'd really like more feedback on this. Right now there is some symmetry among the empowering runes: Infinity/Death, Mastery/Disorder, Truth/Illusion. If I get rid of Infinity this goes away. Re: The trade rune as a form rune: I guess the trade rune could be the mechanism for translating between languages. Would there need to be a separate spell for each language pair, or would it be general purpose? I tried to stay away from spells which generate knowledge in my descriptions, because it seems to make the scholar's work too easy (after all, knowledge is the most valuable commodity in Glorantha). I guess I could make the spell difficulties really high so only the scholar/sage type sorcerers would be able to cast the spell. Thanks for the comments! Also, if anyone has any info on Ethilrist, I'd love to hear it! I'm in the process of rolling up characters in my campaign now. So far they include a Humakti/Orlanthi Initiate (mercenary who used to be a farmer near boldhome), an Argan Argar Initiate (Troll), and a 23 year old Brithini Zzabur who got sick of studying endlessly and being reminded that he would never be as good as his 500 year old counterparts, and left for adventure on a merchant ship out of Laufol. Ken McKinney ====================================================================== The RuneQuest(tm) mailing list is a courtesy of Andrew Bell. All opinions and material above are the responsibility of the originator, and copyrights are held by them. 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