Subject: Discussions 15 First Distribution: June 19, 1991 ====================================================================== From: Theresa Verity Subject: Continuing the RuneQuest Okay - hows about this? I represent a largish RPG gaming group in the southern Alabama and northern Florida area, called the WarGamers... Well, for the past year we have noticed that our existing Archival Tomes Library is one of the largest private club collections ANYWHERE, it as of now consists of mainly books bought on ALL RPG's... We are wanting to extend this library farther - into the computer spectrum, and this is what we are planning: I have gotten in touch with all of the Major RPG discussion areas on Internet and Bitnet and spoken to their respec- tive owners about a small favor - we send you disks and you copy your files onto them and once we get all of it we would like to start a disk subscription service going... Every month (or every 720K) after we have received all of your files we would like to be able to get the UP TO DATE files *IF* our plan about becoming another Net node does NOT work... Either way, if we become a node or not the new software wing of the library will be able to be checked out and copied (as additional source materials or gaming ideas for our GM's)... As a node we intend on rotat- ing the archives each week (with a schedule for rotation), one week is AD&D the other is RuneQuest, after that is Traveller - we have enough room to do that... OR as an addition to our home club libraries (or our off shoot groups in other states) people can check the disks out for a week or so and be free to copy without penalty... We make no money at all off of this and the author's work can be spread out to a new audien- ce... I have tested this idea and is DOES work - ALL of the files that I currently own are in DEMAND... We will send the disks to you (however many you specify in IBM 720K format OR Amiga 880K formats) and pay for postage and a lunch for you (a $5 lunch)... That's all we can offer now, because there's about 7 major discussions going on now (Traveller, Ars-Magica, AD&D, GMAST, yours, Flashlife, Champions, and others we might find later) - and that's all we can afford... IF we become a node - or have a permanent address- I will send you the node location and you could dump all of it there - later of course 'cause you're busy... My personal off-net address is: WG'er new office (in May) address: Theresa Verity The WarGamers 130 E. Nine Mile Rd. Apt 25 10 Marshall Rd. Pensacola, Fla Pensacola, Fla 32514 (new) (?????) not there yet. PLEASE send me your address IF you want to do the floppy shuffle after April (becaus after April 20 or so classes stop here and they kill our accounts on the BitNet)... Thanx ahead of time - Theresa I'll be sending you some info on us soon... This is a little something I quickly wrote up - please note, not ALL information on the WarGamers is present, but it's what's in the works now. If you are interested to get more info OR if you live from Lillian, AL to Destin, FL gimmie a hollar: Current address: 130 E. NIne-Mile Rd. Apt 25 Pensacola, FL 32514 / Office address (NEW - in May) 10 Marshall, Pensacola, FL 325??.. If you want ALL info and not another teaser send a SASE BIG envelop and $3 for postage... In the next week I'll try to send more info over the net... Theresa the Founder & Playtesting Dir. Satellite WarGamers: -------------------- Obligations to membership: Satellite dues: Universities and colleges are to send $30 semesterly. Student dues: Dues for individual students are usually set at $3-5 per semester. Please send us an up-to-date listing of members. Responsibilities: Mainly we just just need for the group to keep with our '10 commandments' and the constitution. Activity: We do not require super-human activity from the groups, simply because students are already expending mondo amounts of energy in college life. Meetings once a month (or more frequently are allowed and encour- aged) are manditory. Other frivalties: Notifying the WarGamers about tourneys, conventions, and public functions of the sort. This is also asked for any other functions that might be viewed by the public as questionable. Other functions, that are normal for gamers, should be put in a small journal/flier and sent to the WarGamers. Explanations: About notifying the WarGamers about tourneys and conventions, we are not implying that we take away any of the creative control or decission-making power away from your group. We just want to know what is going on, and might possibly pass this info on to other groups to advertise. When you guys plan something on the same line as challenging a local church/clergy, or otherwise causing emotions to flare, CALL us| Speak to us BEFORE you do something like this, we definitely need to know about it and discuss it with you. About 75% of the time we will not condone it, simply because one slip-up and all of the WarGamers/WarGroups could be easily implicated in what your group did. Normal functions and meeting minutes should be logged and a copy sent to the WarGamers. This is to keep a tab on group actions. If you would like to know our actions, you may request a copy of what we are up to. Members should be kept track of. For mailing new info we need to have either the group address (ie: University Station/Post Office) or have member's individual addresses (not necessary) sent to us. We request that members have some sort of info sheet (like our own), or application for your records. All we need other than the specification of the above is the names, ages, game preferrences, occupations, and college level of the individual members. In the future this will turn into statistical information that can be used for either general info or as a population study of the Gamers to be used for source info in papers written by members (proving points on subjects). Now, some of the goodies: Privilages of group membership: Ordering through our main RPG shop: Labyrinth will get you 20% off on ALL orders for comics (any title), role-playing game books/materials, and strategy games/materials. Materials: Dice to maps and miniatures to primer -- anything. Ability to become a playtesting group for our sponsors. We will send you the applications we received for people who are interested in the area of playtesting games. NOTE: This is a very busy job, the companies require their playtesters to be quite knowledgable about their systems and have a knack for problem solving. Although this area of the WarGamers is a very rewarding (not monetarily) job some might get burnt out before long. Reason: Playtesting sessions on a major games go from a year to five years, and people who are looking at becoming playtesters need to be aware of this. For months or years of working on a single project a tester MIGHT get mentioned and MIGHT get a free copy of the finished product. Example: I personally helped work on GURPS CyberPunk for close to a year and a half. In that time I received three precopies of the game, submitted an estimated 50 pages worth of notes on that game alone, and bugged the company about getting a copy of the finished book. I did get mentioned in the book and did get a copy, but in the end I had worked my buns off. At the SAME time I was commondeered for two other SJ projects at as well as had been in on Mythic Egypt with ICE. I guess the wise word to the fool is: You have the right to decline for a job and if not, stick with it like it were an obligation. Now for the other hand: There ARE dry periods in jobs for playtesters, some that last as long as an average session or longer. Don't panic because this is normal. Applying to be a playester: All applicants have to go through applying directly with the company (preferrably Bard, SJ Games, or ICE). We will supply the applications, but you have to send them in and wait. Not all applicants are accepted, in fact there is a less than 20% acceptance ratio from one company and even less from others. Applying for playtesting is JUST like applying to get a job. Unfortunately, none of the companies call or send a note confirming acceptance of prospective testers. It's usally not until you get a call from a company rep asking if you would like to test a product (and this may take months, or never). ============================================================================ Dues: Permantent Gamers: Temporary/Military Gamers: ------------------------------------------------------------------ $20 up front for the year $5 per quarter (3 months) due at beginning of quarter with 10 day grace period 1 free pass to a Labyrinth tourney no free passes 1 membership ID card/laminated 1 temporary paper ID card Both get: - 20% off (with ID card) for Labyrinth role-playing merchandise and comics, and 10-15% off (again, with ID card) for Koby's gaming materials only (no Hallmark stuff). - The ability to get in contact with each other for game masters and game players (We do not have the obligation to find a game for eachand every Gamer. Gamers will recieve the appropriate information in order to find their own games|) The Archival Tomes - The WarGamer library. It currently sports over 40 different gaming systems including over 45 individual games. It also holds the largest public collection of Dragons (anywhere that I know) from issues 45 to current (skipping a few in between). Ability to playtest/edit - for Steve Jackson Games, Bard Games, etc. ============================================================================ Facts: We are supported by the following: Bard Games (RPG Companies) Talislanta - Atlantis P.O. Box 7729 Greenwich, CT 06836 FASA Corporation Game Designers' Workshop BattleTech - Star Trek MegaTraveller - Europa 1026 W. Van Buren P.O. Box 1646 Chicago, IL 60607 Bloomington, IL 61702-1646 (312) 243-4847 (309) 452-3632 Hero Games Iron Crown Enterprises Champions - Danger Int'l MERP - RoleMaster Same as I.C.E. 108 Fifth St. SE P.O. Box 1605 Charlottesville, VA 22902 (804) 295-3917 Palladium Books Steve Jackson Games Heroes Unlimited - Robotech Car Wars - GURPS 5926 Lonyo P.O. Box 18957 Detroit, MI 48210 Austin, TX 78760 (313) 843-1275 (512) 447-7866 We are also supported by: Koby's Hobbies/Hallmark (Local Shops) RPG - Holiday Cards 110 S. Palafox Pensacola, FL 32501 (904) 434-7606 The Gold Dragon Comics - Games - Gifts 3970 Government Blvd. Mobile, Alabama 36693 (205) 661-4060 AND by: FTL Games (Software company) Dungeon Master - Traveller 6160 Lusk Blvd. Suite C-206 San Diego, CA 92121 (619) 453-5711 I forgot to mention in the WarGamer info that I sent to you that the 'Gamers have been around for 4 years. We have 6 officers: one for each of our most busy sections of interest: Role-playing, Strategy/Board Gam- ing, Playtesting, Computer RP/Strat, Finance, and an editor for the Untitled magazine... We are currently awaiting 2 things: approval from the Feds that we ARE a recognized Non-Profit Organization, and our move to the office we have set up.. We are in no way controlled by any of our sponsors and act independantly from them (the before mentioned RPG stores and the companies themselves) - sort of like a VERY free and VERY open RPGA... We enforce no strictures on WHAT game is played - tho we do not sanction open live-action Role-Play... We offer discounts (working on a couple of other stores in the Arizona and outer areas), comradery (if that's a word), ability to playtest, use of the local libraries of RPG Source Material (and that's why I've hit you guys up for your archives - they will be going into our library), and many other things... I've put out a request at UWF to allow the WarGamers or the student UWF Gamers (our first spouter group) to have a permanent node address so that we can get an edge in to keep in constant contact with gamers from all over - we WANT to grow LARGE and we WANT to FURTHER gaming... Please feel free to write to me or the WarGamers at the following addresses: Theresa Verity The WarGamers (in May) 130 E. Nine-Mile Rd Apt 25 10 Marshall Rd. Pensacola, Fla 32514 P-cola, Fla 325?? In May we will be moving into the new office (yeah|), and in mid-April I will be moving into a new apartment (904) 484-0578.... Give me some responses - PLEASE... ====================================================================== From: Michael Norrish Subject: RQ Digest: problems with sorcerers In the latest Digest, Mark Wallace writes: [...] >I'm not currently GMing, but the folling are the guidelines I've >worked up to handle sorcerors when I restart the campaign: >[...] >Fourth, worship of the invisible god is a serious business; magi >should be reluctant to travel more than a weeks travel from a temple >of the invisible god. Those who ignore their religious duties should >incur the enmity of their fellows. Magi should be reluctant to take >potential heretics as students, since it reflects badly on their >souls. Archmagi are more likely to challenge/depose other Archmagi >who are agnostic, because they give magi a bad rep, and for other >reasons. When I read this, I suddenly didn't know what on earth Mark was talking about. Is this 'invisible god' some strange metaphor for the ideals of scientific research, (as much as sorcerous magic could be said to be 'scientific' :-), or am I missing something else much more fundamental? Is there some Gloranthan context in which this talk of sorcerors worshipping something makes sense? I had always thought that sorcerers were perfect atheists, devoted to prying apart the universe with no help from any higher power, and refusing moreover to recognise any such other-worldly beings as superior. Doesn't the introduction to the Magic Book in the third edition say as much? [In Glorantha, sorcerers are generally monotheists worshiping the Invisible (and apparently impotent) God. The society known as the Malkioni are all worshipers of this being. Check "Gods of Glorantha" or the Genertela Pack for more info on this practice. -ACB] Anyway, skipping this invisible god thing, I must say that I am finding this all quite interesting. I haven't GMed an RQ game before but I am in the phase of the game whereby I am writing lots of campaign material for what will be my best effort yet. This talk of balance destroying sorcerers is a trifle disturbing. Brought up on a diet of AD&D type MUs I was quite happy with the concept of sorcerers; they were going to be weak sorts physically but powerful sources of knowledge and spells. Is this really that difficult to achieve? I would have thought that the most important restriction, (restricting access to spells), would have done the trick every time. If those wizards can't get their hands on the spells then they are going to have to do a lot of non-magic related training/research if they are going to make it; (who wants a one-spell magician in their party?). The magician must be more; s/he must also have lots of knowledge; literacy itself should be allowed by the GM to be a powerful advantage. (Though this does mean that the GM does have to do a lot of work to ensure that there is plenty of extra knowledge for the mage to have). Keen to hear responses, Michael. Michael Norrish. norrish@rata.vuw.ac.nz ------------Victoria Univeristy of Wellington----------------- Church-Turing Thesis, (Theodore Roszak version): Computers are ridiculous. So is science in general. ====================================================================== From: Subject: Handling Sorcerors and their place in Lunar life >From: mcwalla@algol.cs.umbc.edu (Mark C Wallace) >Subject: Re: RQ discussion 13 > > ....Stuff deleted.... > In reality > this question is a rephrasing of what I ask myself at least once every > game session, "How to handle sorcerors!?!?!" True, this is probably a better question. > Further discussion about how to limit the power of sorcery deleted. ====================================================================== > From: Andrew Bell (bell@cs.unc.edu) > > Subject: Re: Sorcery problems > Presumably, however, the problem for you is a problem of balance -- > mixing sorcerers with other classes results in a much stronger party > than one without sorcerers. While this would appear to be fairly rare > in most of Glorantha, due to the social schisms between the godless > sorcerers and the god worshipers, certainly there must be some mixing > (else why would Chalana Arroy worshipers be permitted to be sorcerers) > and this may have a less than desirable effect on play balance. My problem exactly. > Andrew's sorcery rules deleted. After reading the responses of both Mark and Andrew I thought I'd add some further background to my particular problem. I'm about to GM a party of Lunars and this is why it is possible to have such a mixed bag of characters and hence my efforts to find a balanced set of rules. I've already decided to incorporate Andrew Bell's sorecry modifications as a first step. The second problem I have is deciding on the Lunar attitude to straight sorcery (i.e. non-Invisible God ) or are all sorcerors in Glorantha followers of gods ( be it invisible or Red ). Do magician regiments onsist soley of initiates of the Red Goddess using Lunar magic or do they have normal sorcerors as well. I tend feel they'd have both. Certainly the players book in the Genertela Supplement suggests that sorcery is not uncommon in the Empire. I'm also having problems resolving the fact that Pelorians are described as being 50% Dara Happan (and thus Yelmic) and 50% peasants worshipping various grain goddesses. Seven Mothers, the Red Goddess etc don't seem to feature highly anywhere in the Lunar Empire - (though Carmanian knights are often in Yanafil Tarnils(sp?) ) Can anyone explain this ? My explanation is that all those in the Lunar Government are members of Seven Mothers ( I equate it's power and influence to that of say the Communist Party in the Soviet Union. That is, if you want to get ahead you better be in the cult.) The military would also have a large Lunar worshipping component. Am I totally of the mark here or does this seem a reasonable assumption? ====================================================================== From: balazar%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com (Al Petterson) Subject: Griffin Mountain email game Mike Mittmann and I created a Cults of Prax-style writeup on Eurmal; unfortunately it's in Macintoy format (wanted it to print and look pretty) and we run our usenet connection off a 386 clone. I'll modem it across within a few days (as soon as I have some free time) and send it off to the Digest. [Al still hasn't sent me this -- send him encouraging/pleading/brow-beating email to help me get this out of him...:-) -ACB] Might the digest or digest recipients be interested in summaries etc. of my Griffin Mountain email game? [If people would be interested in having something like this in the discussions, I can certainly include it. Send Al and me mail if you would be interested in this. -ACB] ====================================================================== From: Subject: Re: RQ discussion 14 A Sorceror's Lot Is Not an 'Appy One-- Everyone wants to "fix" the sorcery rules. Yeah, all right, they do read like they weren't playtested, and like someone "game-balanced" them without thinking much about playability. However, everyone's rules differ from everyone else's as far as fixes go, and it's pointless to discuss whose fix is better. Andrew's rules were basically mine when I was running, and the small amount of playtesting they got indicated that they work O.K. Here's another set of rules I have playtested extensively, and they work fine (if you're not hung up about sorcerors being powerful.) As Andrew noted, the Gloranthan materials indicate that sorcerors ARE powerful, and tend to beat up on divine magic users. Note, however, that they have to specialize heavily in order to be halfway-competent. Someone who knows a few points of sorcery spells at low skills is no match for an initiate. Without more ado, here are Mike's rules as I understand them (Mike, correct me if I'm wrong). Use them or not, as you like. Discard free INT. The maximum "through-put" of a spell (intensity plus duration plus range, totalled if using multispell) equals the sorceror's personal POW. [Note: Green elves are psychologically incapable of using sorcery; however, Mistress Race trolls are as scary as they wanna be; Tappers increase their effective POW, making Tapping very tempting.] The Sense spells are durational, but can't be "tuned" to a different SIZ/whatever after casting. Mystic Vision is passive. Form/set is active until set, then passive--the sorceror can return his attention to the target with a successful concentration roll. [Form/Set is the best spell, by the way, and my sorceror's primary offensive spell. He specializes in making people's helmets into close-fitting opaque pots while they're still on someone's head. Breaks the ice at parties.] Protective Circle creates a hemispheric volume of protection. Sense Projection (a/k/a "Doom Portal") allows not only spells but spirits to pass through and attack the caster; thus, smart sorcerors multispell it with Spirit Resistance, which may block the spirit long enough for the sorceror to drop the spell. Tap is passive. Oh, yes, having a high Mystic Vision up all the time is dangerous--one can be blinded by seeing a highly-magical thing. The information Mike gives for Mystic Vision tends to be non-game-speak: this is simultaneously more informative than the spell is written, since it gives clues as to what the hell is going on in his intensely-magical world, and less informative, since he won't tell me what ten-point range everything fits into. That's it. No complicated formulas, no long list of exceptions and quick fixes. I hope y'all like it. -Martin CRIMMARTI@urvax.urich.edu P.S. The only other spell that needs to be fixed is Haste. It should only cost the target extra FP when the extra movement rate is used. Otherwise, Haste 1 is a slow-acting Drain 15. ====================================================================== From: Michael Kossowsky Subject: RQ computer aid I am currently developing a RQ computer aid. It will be able to create random monsters, with all thier attributes, skills, and magic. The way the program will know how to do this is via a monster 'template'. The template will list contain all the basic info about a monster - attribute dice, basic weapons, skills and magic. When a monster is rolled, the computer asks if you want a bias on the die roll, thereby allowing one to create superior monsters or 'rabble'. It will also carry over the monsters skills, weapons and magic. The user will then be able to modify all of the info on the sheet, changing atrributes, adding/deleting skills, etc. The user will then be able so save and print the monsters out. Now, I have some questions that I haven't sorrted out yet, and I am looking for creative input. The template essentialy looks just like an entry in the Bestiary, now that means that when I put in the weapon for a monster, I also put in a skill % foor that weapon - should that number automaticaly change based on the die bias - i.e to go up if the user selects a 'superior' monster ? Hmmm. I thought I had more problems, I guess I don't. But, what I really am looking for is suggestions in what people would want to see in such an aid, also advice from anyone who has started writing one of these things. I had previously started writing this in Pascal, then C, but put them away. Recently, I needed to teach myself Paradox, so I figured I would do that by writing this program as an application. When I finally complete this thing, I will make it availible to the public as ShareWare. If anyone has Paradox 3.5, then all you will need is the application itself, if you don't then you will also need the Paradox Runtime, which I can send you, but it is fairly big. Anyhow, let me hear some ideas from y'all. - Michael Kossowsky studbnet@iljct ====================================================================== From: Andrew Bell (bell@cs.unc.edu) Subject: Re: Digest.06#06 For the most part, I agree with MOB's comments. However: >(v.) The products have to be new. Reprints have their place, but >let's let them take a back seat for a while. We'd like to see Avalon >Hill publish some things we haven't seen before. I wouldn't be so quick to write off reprints. Reprints presumably have the significant advantage that they take a whole lot less effort to create and to approve. Also, products such as Borderlands, Pavis, and Big Rubble are good for getting people started with RuneQuest in a way that things such as Elder Secrets and the Genertela Pack aren't. If we want to get Avalon Hill to back RQ, they've got to get more people interested in the product before they will devote the resources to the more grandiose schemes. ====================================================================== The RuneQuest(tm) mailing list is a courtesy of Andrew Bell. All opinions and material above are the responsibility of the originator, and copyrights are held by them. Unless specified in the specific article, all RQ Digest material is freely redistributable on a not-for-profit basis as long as author credit is included. RuneQuest is a trademark of Chaosium, Inc. Send submissions, mailing list changes, requests for old article lists, etc. to: bell@cs.unc.edu ...!mcnc!unc!bell Request old articles by volume number and issue number.