From postmaster at runequest.za.org Fri Dec 7 20:39:54 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 11:39:54 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] test - Is list up? Message-ID: <37438.41.208.48.64.1197020394.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Haven't received anything from the list in a while? Did anyone get this, if so, could someone mail me offline to confirm? Cheers Tony From postmaster at runequest.za.org Wed Dec 5 20:46:52 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:46:52 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat Message-ID: <31166.196.8.104.31.1196848012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Well, my one group finally play tested our home brew mass combat system. Seemed to work okay although determining results got a bit number crunching intensive. That plus the missile system needs a bit of tweaking. The long and the short is we tried to come up with something that leans more to the role play side (away from wargamsey system side). Was fun to play by all accounts. Will prob post it on my site some time. Tony From superninja42 at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 09:27:33 2007 From: superninja42 at gmail.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:27:33 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] test - Is list up? In-Reply-To: <37438.41.208.48.64.1197020394.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> References: <37438.41.208.48.64.1197020394.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <4183445e0712101427qfeb1a79yb234a1632186041a@mail.gmail.com> How do you mail offline :P But yes, someone got this. ~Robert On Dec 7, 2007 3:39 AM, wrote: > Haven't received anything from the list in a while? Did anyone get this, > if so, could someone mail me offline to confirm? > Cheers > Tony > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > -- Robert Parrish superninja42 at gmail.com www.finding42.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071210/3f59e8b6/attachment.html From shaw at caprica.com Tue Dec 11 12:07:39 2007 From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:07:39 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] test - Is list up? In-Reply-To: <4183445e0712101427qfeb1a79yb234a1632186041a@mail.gmail.com > References: <37438.41.208.48.64.1197020394.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4183445e0712101427qfeb1a79yb234a1632186041a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20071210170724.034bec30@caprica.com> At 02:27 PM 12/10/2007, you wrote: >How do you mail offline :P > >But yes, someone got this. > >~Robert > >On Dec 7, 2007 3:39 AM, ><postmaster at runequest.za.org> wrote: >Haven't received anything from the list in a while? Did anyone get this, >if so, could someone mail me offline to confirm? >Cheers >Tony >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > Yeah, I hadn't seen anything here for a while, either. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071210/3d657afe/attachment.html From postmaster at runequest.za.org Tue Dec 11 17:23:47 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:23:47 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] test - Is list up? In-Reply-To: <4183445e0712101427qfeb1a79yb234a1632186041a@mail.gmail.com> References: <37438.41.208.48.64.1197020394.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4183445e0712101427qfeb1a79yb234a1632186041a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <51958.196.8.104.31.1197354227.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Ah, offlist I meant:) Good thing its working again. Was getting bored:) > How do you mail offline :P > > But yes, someone got this. > > ~Robert > > On From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 03:04:09 2007 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:04:09 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: <31166.196.8.104.31.1196848012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> References: <31166.196.8.104.31.1196848012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: How does the magic function? My personal problem with RQ and mass combat (as compared to warhammer), is that everybody knows magic... Personally, I've tried Warhamster (from a Tales of the reaching Moon mag.), and simply using Warhammer fantasy battle; the last actually working best, just adding common spirit magic as a general modifier to the basic mundane stats... How did you guys solve it, and why is missile a problem? > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:46:52 +0200> From: postmaster at runequest.za.org> To: rq-rules at crashbox.com> Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat > > Well, my one group finally play tested our home brew mass combat system.> Seemed to work okay although determining results got a bit number> crunching intensive. That plus the missile system needs a bit of tweaking.> The long and the short is we tried to come up with something that leans> more to the role play side (away from wargamsey system side). Was fun to> play by all accounts. Will prob post it on my site some time.> Tony> _______________________________________________> RQ-Rules mailing list> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071211/480d2553/attachment.html From bick10 at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 04:03:01 2007 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:03:01 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat Message-ID: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an environment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving miniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. When they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just with more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from being rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the center fell and the flanks fled. Jim From devinc at aol.com Wed Dec 12 05:56:37 2007 From: devinc at aol.com (devinc at aol.com) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:56:37 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> References: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CA0A3EB163341F-110-1C0D@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com> What I did was use the Dragon Pass game and counters and modified it for a more small scale (but still mass battle) combat. That allowed me to us the magic and combat systems already in place. Worked very nicely. I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an nvironment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving iniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. hen they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just ith more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from eing rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the enter fell and the flanks fled. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Bickmeyer To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 9:03 am Subject: RE: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an nvironment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving iniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. hen they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just ith more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from eing rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the enter fell and the flanks fled. im ______________________________________________ Q-Rules mailing list Q-Rules at crashbox.com ttp://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071211/fcbde349/attachment.html From bick10 at comcast.net Wed Dec 12 06:21:06 2007 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:21:06 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat Message-ID: <121120071921.24773.475EE322000B709E000060C52215553894CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> > What I did was use the Dragon Pass game and counters and modified it for a more > small scale (but still mass battle) combat. That allowed me to us the magic and > combat systems already in place. Worked very nicely. That was my other option. But my players weren't up to boardgaming their roleplaying. Still, a very nice idea. From rjmeints at aol.com Wed Dec 12 06:31:51 2007 From: rjmeints at aol.com (Rick Meints) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:31:51 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Classic Runequest: How would you do it? In-Reply-To: <20071211185743.F2F1AF44538@mini.thinbits.net> References: <20071211185743.F2F1AF44538@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <8CA0A439D198038-D4C-1DFC@MBLK-M21.sysops.aol.com> The ultimate linkage would be to run: Borderlands, followed by a trip to Griffin Mountain, after which they return to Pavis, run through most of the scenarios except the Cradle, go through the Big Rubble, and then do the Cradle scenario. Borderlands last scenario (7) has the PCs heading up to meet some people from Dykene, which provides the opportunity to go on into Balazar and the Elder Wilds. The PCs could adventure there for a while, build up some skills and such, and then head back down to Prax for loads of adventures in New Pavis and the Rubble before the Cradle arrives. Regards, Rick Meints Message: 1 From: Lev Lafayette Subject: [Rq-rules] Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." A wee bit off-topic for a group dedicated to the rules, but given the brains present... If you were to run classic RuneQuest (i.e., the Borderlands, Pavis and Big Rubble boxed sets) in a campaign for people who are experienced roleplayers and have some RQ experience, in what order would you do it? At the moment, I am thinking doing all or most of the Borderlands scenarios in succession then moving into Pavis and alternating between the Pavis and Big Rubble scenarios. Obviously the Cradles scenario comes last because, well, that is so epic.. What say ye? Lev ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071211/cacb955f/attachment.html From soltakss at yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 18:41:11 2007 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:41:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? Message-ID: <995480.9598.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Lev Lafayette: > A wee bit off-topic for a group dedicated to the > rules, but given the brains present... If you were to > run classic RuneQuest (i.e., the Borderlands, Pavis > and Big Rubble boxed sets) in a campaign for people > who are experienced roleplayers and have some RQ > experience, in what order would you do it? Funnily enough, I'm running a classic Pavis/Praxian camapign at the moment .... I'd go Welcome to the City, Burglary at Raus' House, Borderlands, Griffin Gate, Balastor's Barracks, Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on Yelorna, The Devil's Playground, Krang's Table, The Puzzle Canal, Temple at Feroda, Cradle. If you wanted to include the OTHER Classic Praxian Scenarios, use River of Cradles, Sun County, Shadows on the Borderlands and Strangers in Prax. Garhound Contest/Melisande's Hand, Troubled Waters (The Grotto of Pocharngo), Sun County River Ritual, Rabbit Hat Farm, The Old Sun Dome Temple, Solinthor's Tower, Guamata's Vision, Welcome to the City, Burglary at Raus' House, Borderlands, A Tale to Tell, Griffin Gate, One High Priest Too Many, Balastor's Barracks, Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on Yelorna, The Devil's Playground, Dyskund Caverns, Krang's Table, The Riot, A Home Away From Home, Black Magic, Ever Burning Torches, River Rafting, The Vomitor, The Puzzle Canal, Temple at Feroda, Cradle The ones in the middle can be moved around without a problem, but some depend on other scenarios in some way. If you go further afield, there's a whole load of interconnected Praxian/Pavic scenarios in Tradetalk/Tales of the Reaching Moon/RQ Adventures and P&BR Companions. Take a look at http://www.soltakss.com/pavis01.html for more information. See Ya Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071211/9b579011/attachment.html From postmaster at runequest.za.org Wed Dec 12 19:34:04 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:34:04 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: References: <31166.196.8.104.31.1196848012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <43479.196.8.104.31.1197448444.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> We actually steered clear of magic unless it can be generally used. So unless somehow every troop in a unit had bladesharp, or some powerful sorecer can cast damage resistance on all and sundry, we ignore in terms of big picture result.. Simple rule of thumb we used was a unit can only be as strong as its weakest link. Not hugely realistic, but then again neithe ris magic:) Also we tried to simply for role play purposed i.e. differentiate from a wargamsey approach. Healing magic we assume, if teh army has healers, taht kind of resolution occurrs after the battle, so can be debated by players and GM. Missile no necessarily a huge problem, just we didn't think it through propoerly. Still, overall it was fun to have something relatively simple (although a bit numbers intensive when determining results) that coudl add some dimension and reality to a bigger combat scenario. > How does the magic function? My personal problem with RQ and mass combat > (as compared to warhammer), is that everybody knows magic... > > Personally, I've tried Warhamster (from a Tales of the reaching Moon > mag.), and simply using Warhammer fantasy battle; the last actually > working best, just adding common spirit magic as a general modifier to the > basic mundane stats... How did you guys solve it, and why is missile a > problem? > > > >> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:46:52 +0200> From: postmaster at runequest.za.org> >> To: rq-rules at crashbox.com> Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat > > >> Well, my one group finally play tested our home brew mass combat >> system.> Seemed to work okay although determining results got a bit >> number> crunching intensive. That plus the missile system needs a bit of >> tweaking.> The long and the short is we tried to come up with something >> that leans> more to the role play side (away from wargamsey system >> side). Was fun to> play by all accounts. Will prob post it on my site >> some time.> Tony> _______________________________________________> >> RQ-Rules mailing list> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com> >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/_______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From postmaster at runequest.za.org Wed Dec 12 19:39:05 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:39:05 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@com cast.net> References: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <58260.196.8.104.31.1197448745.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Interesting take on it, I like. Question though, how did you resove which side won? Tony > I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an > environment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of > moving miniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in > the battle. When they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played > RQ as normal. Just with more targets than usual. > > It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank > from being rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. > Then the center fell and the flanks fled. > > From shaw at caprica.com Thu Dec 13 00:59:01 2007 From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:59:01 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: References: <31166.196.8.104.31.1196848012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20071212055823.034542a0@caprica.com> At 08:04 AM 12/11/2007, you wrote: >How does the magic function? My personal problem with RQ and mass >combat (as compared to warhammer), is that everybody knows magic... That should be easy enough to abstract in most cases; the routine soldier likely only knows one of a limited number of spells with a limited duration. From styopa1 at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 02:37:55 2007 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:37:55 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? In-Reply-To: <995480.9598.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <995480.9598.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0712120737t5f0c20e5kb8912071239ff50f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 12, 2007 1:41 AM, Simon Phipp wrote: > I'd go Welcome to the City, Burglary at Raus' House, Borderlands, Griffin > Gate, Balastor's Barracks, Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on Yelorna, The Devil's > Playground, Krang's Table, The Puzzle Canal, Temple at Feroda, Cradle. > Is there ANYWHERE to find the RQ3 Giant's Cradle information? Even the published material refers to it, but IMO the actual SCENARIO hasn't been in print forever....I've been 'doing' RQ since the early '80s and I've never seen it. I'm nearly certain it never WAS published for RQ3, only RQ2 and perhaps only RQ1. Even Strangers in Prax refers to it significantly, timing the arrival of Arlaten the Magus sometime after the Giant's Cradle event so that he isn't somehow associated with it. Frustrating. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/a742e953/attachment.html From rjmeints at aol.com Thu Dec 13 03:12:49 2007 From: rjmeints at aol.com (Rick Meints) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:12:49 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Cradle info converted for RQ3 In-Reply-To: <20071212154926.EFB36F631C7@mini.thinbits.net> References: <20071212154926.EFB36F631C7@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <8CA0AF0F99EEEC7-E88-525C@webmail-mf13.sysops.aol.com> The Gloranthan Classic book - Pavis & Big Rubble didn't convert or update the information for RQ3. The info is for RQ2. While someone may have done the conversion personally, I don't know of anyone who has said they have done so, or if they?did, whether they have posted it anywhere on the web. While having it converted to RQ3 would make a few things easier to run, I would think that the RQ2 info would suffice in most cases. Much of the info is relatively general in nature, with only some of the stats and such truly detailed. I would imagine that the info as presented would work, although incomplete for things like magic points, etc. Regards, Rick Meints Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:37:55 -0600 From: Styopa Is there ANYWHERE to find the RQ3 Giant's Cradle information? Even the published material refers to it, but IMO the actual SCENARIO hasn't been in print forever....I've been 'doing' RQ since the early '80s and I've never seen it. I'm nearly certain it never WAS published for RQ3, only RQ2 and perhaps only RQ1. Even Strangers in Prax refers to it significantly, timing the arrival of Arlaten the Magus sometime after the Giant's Cradle event so that he isn't somehow associated with it. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/95c24ec2/attachment.html From bick10 at comcast.net Thu Dec 13 05:31:56 2007 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:31:56 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat Message-ID: <121220071831.18924.4760291C00088265000049EC2215593414CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> > Interesting take on it, I like. Question though, how did you resove which > side won? > Tony As the GM I determined which side won. As the battle is an 'environment' I see it as the GM's job to decide the results. Just like a storm at sea vs a ship with the players as crew. There is some dice rolling. Skill checks and then as GM I decide what the final result is. This may sound snobbish. Not what I intend. The players trust me to provide them with a story for them to enjoy. I trust them to go along with my story. In the case of the big battle (which took place during the Dragon Kill War), they did change an outcome. The right flank was suppose to be stalled by two dream dragons munching on lightly armored hoplites. They killed one and chased the other off. Thus the right flank advanced and started to turn to the center. Of course I had already planned on a small True Dragon to bring the battle to an end. So the end result remained. But if that wasn't my end game, the overall battle could have ended different. Now what happens if the players are commanders or even the general? I lay out the battle and let the players make opposed rolls. Then I treat each unit as if it was a NPC. Give them attacks %, defense %, AP, HP... Let the commanders winning the contested provide some bonuses for getting better ground, better placement of the units, ect... Still I keep thing fairly abstract. I stay away from turning it into a miniatures war game. That way I could focus on the role playing of the battle and less on checking moment distance, reference moral charts and arguing that the block of skirmisher figures are not block by the corner of a friendly unit. When the players were commanders, I still tried to get them into a fight. Maybe they are attacked my a magicked moment unit, flyers, or while racing to rally a company that is on the verge of breaking. Please understand, I am not trying to be a role player elitist. I've played the RPG's that have miniture rules built in. Many of them have a general, roll once to see if the PC dies/wounded/captured result. I didn't like it when my PC died because I made one bad roll. I'm don't expect my players to either. I find that making the large battles a role playing environment is more fun. And I can get through the battle in one night without spending it arguing about the rules and what really happened in ancient wars. Jim > > I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an > > environment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of > > moving miniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in > > the battle. When they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played > > RQ as normal. Just with more targets than usual. > > > > It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank > > from being rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. > > Then the center fell and the flanks fled. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From bick10 at comcast.net Thu Dec 13 05:48:33 2007 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:48:33 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat Message-ID: <121220071848.7282.47602D010004CBF300001C722215593414CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> > At 08:04 AM 12/11/2007, you wrote: > >How does the magic function? My personal problem with RQ and mass > >combat (as compared to warhammer), is that everybody knows magic... > > That should be easy enough to abstract in most cases; the routine > soldier likely only knows one of a limited number of spells with a > limited duration. The common spirit magic spells really only affect things on the individual level. But if you want; consider a unit has 50% capable of throwing disrupt. I would take the average power vs. average power then calculate how much would get through. Maybe randomize up and down some. Then apply it to the affected unit. So, a 500 man unit had 250 that can cast disrupt and do so. Their average POW is 14. The target unit has an average POW of 12. That means 70% of the disrupt spells will hit. Throw a randomizer of choice in the mix. Roll vs. that 70%, crit is +25% affects, special is +15% affects, normal success is normal, fumble is -50% of the normal. Then apply the result to the unit as a hole. Might cause some figures to be lost in the unit, or unit HP, or Cohesion Factor, or what ever you are using... Spells like Demoralize would slow the unit down and reduce their overall attack. Spirits would cause the unit cohesion to be affected. Another way to do it is to give units a magic attack and defense. If I recall correct that is what Dragon Pass did. Thus a unit could attack physically as well as magically. Maybe even at the same time. At least they could defend from both at the same time. I know I didn't give you much specifics. Just the two ways I've thought about it. I did the first. It will be slower than the second way. Jim From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Dec 13 05:53:11 2007 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:53:11 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: <8CA0A3EB163341F-110-1C0D@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com> References: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> <8CA0A3EB163341F-110-1C0D@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: How I would love to get my hands on Dragon Pass boardgame... (Hint, hint) To: rq-rules at crashbox.comSubject: Re: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combatDate: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:56:37 -0500From: devinc at aol.com What I did was use the Dragon Pass game and counters and modified it for a more small scale (but still mass battle) combat. That allowed me to us the magic and combat systems already in place. Worked very nicely. I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an environment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving miniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. When they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just with more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from being rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the center fell and the flanks fled. -----Original Message-----From: Jim Bickmeyer To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 9:03 amSubject: RE: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an environment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving miniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. When they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just with more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from being rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the center fell and the flanks fled. Jim _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/33c807a5/attachment.html From devinc at aol.com Thu Dec 13 06:32:34 2007 From: devinc at aol.com (devinc at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:32:34 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: References: <121120071703.23379.475EC2C500041E6A00005B532216548686CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> <8CA0A3EB163341F-110-1C0D@webmail-dd09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA0B0CE1599BE4-23C-2AB@WEBMAIL-DC08.sysops.aol.com> And you cannot find it on ebay? I found 3 copies available today. How I would love to get my hands on Dragon Pass boardgame... (Hint, hint) -----Original Message----- From: Bjorn Stolen To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:53 am Subject: RE: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat How I would love to get my hands on Dragon Pass boardgame... (Hint, hint) To: rq-rules at crashbox.com Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:56:37 -0500 From: devinc at aol.com ? ? What I did was use the Dragon Pass game and counters and modified it for a more small scale (but still mass battle) combat. That allowed me to us the magic and combat systems already in place. Worked very nicely. I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an nvironment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving iniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. hen they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just ith more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from eing rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the enter fell and the flanks fled. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Bickmeyer To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 9:03 am Subject: RE: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat I?ve gone completely different with mass combat. I consider the battle an nvironment and role play the PC?s in that environment. So, instead of moving iniatures around the table, we role played the players roles in the battle. hen they were in direct combat they rolled dice and played RQ as normal. Just ith more targets than usual. It worked well. They even managed to drop a Dream Dragon saving one flank from eing rolled up. Well, that was until the True Dragon showed up. Then the enter fell and the flanks fled. im ______________________________________________ Q-Rules mailing list Q-Rules at crashbox.com ttp://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger = _______________________________________________ Q-Rules mailing list Q-Rules at crashbox.com ttp://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/f0ca271b/attachment.html From soltakss at yahoo.com Thu Dec 13 07:14:31 2007 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:14:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? Message-ID: <890312.9452.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Styopa: >On Dec 12, 2007 1:41 AM, Simon Phipp wrote: > I'd go Welcome to the City, Burglary at Raus' House, Borderlands, Griffin > Gate, Balastor's Barracks, Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on Yelorna, The Devil's > Playground, Krang's Table, The Puzzle Canal, Temple at Feroda, Cradle. > > Is there ANYWHERE to find the RQ3 Giant's Cradle information? Not RQ3 Giant's Cradle. It was in RQ2's Pavis supplement. > Even the published material refers to it, but IMO the actual SCENARIO hasn't > been in print forever....I've been 'doing' RQ since the early '80s and I've > never seen it. I'm nearly certain it never WAS published for RQ3, only RQ2 > and perhaps only RQ1. Yep, RQ2. Also reprinted in the Pavis & Big Rubble of the Gloranthan Classics. > Even Strangers in Prax refers to it significantly, timing the arrival of > Arlaten the Magus sometime after the Giant's Cradle event so that he isn't > somehow associated with it. Yes, Arlaten does some stuff after the Cradle, but if you want a campaign to end with the Cradle, then he does things before the Cradle :-) > Frustrating. I don't know if Rick has any copies of Pavis and Big Rubble left. If not, try and get a copy from a FLGS. See Ya Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/c89169bf/attachment.html From sverrelarne at yahoo.no Thu Dec 13 07:41:33 2007 From: sverrelarne at yahoo.no (Trifletraxor) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:41:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: *** JUNK MAIL ***Vedr. RE: [Rq-rules] [RQIII]Mass combat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <777780.48032.qm@web28012.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> eeeeeeeeeeeeBay! ;-) Bjorn Stolen skrev: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } How I would love to get my hands on Dragon Pass boardgame... (Hint, hint) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/796aca7d/attachment.html From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Thu Dec 13 10:09:58 2007 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Cradle info converted for RQ3 In-Reply-To: <8CA0AF0F99EEEC7-E88-525C@webmail-mf13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <157823.63764.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm currently planning to run Borderlands, Pavis and Big Rubble in the coming year and will be providing conversion notes asap, if you don't mind the wait :-) --- Rick Meints wrote: > The Gloranthan Classic book - Pavis & Big Rubble > didn't convert or update the information for RQ3. > The info is for RQ2. While someone may have done the > conversion personally, I don't know of anyone who > has said they have done so, or if they?did, whether > they have posted it anywhere on the web. > > While having it converted to RQ3 would make a few > things easier to run, I would think that the RQ2 > info would suffice in most cases. Much of the info > is relatively general in nature, with only some of > the stats and such truly detailed. I would imagine > that the info as presented would work, although > incomplete for things like magic points, etc. > > > Regards, > > Rick Meints > > > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:37:55 -0600 > From: Styopa > > Is there ANYWHERE to find the RQ3 Giant's Cradle > information? > Even the published material refers to it, but IMO > the actual SCENARIO hasn't > been in print forever....I've been 'doing' RQ since > the early '80s and I've > never seen it. I'm nearly certain it never WAS > published for RQ3, only RQ2 > and perhaps only RQ1. > > Even Strangers in Prax refers to it significantly, > timing the arrival of > Arlaten the Magus sometime after the Giant's Cradle > event so that he isn't > somehow associated with it. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL > Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From viktor.haag at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 10:19:45 2007 From: viktor.haag at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?VmlrdG9yIEhhYWc=?=) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:19:45 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Cradle info converted for RQ3 In-Reply-To: <157823.63764.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CA0AF0F99EEEC7-E88-525C@webmail-mf13.sysops.aol.com><157823.63764.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2066182782-1197501580-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1956034996-@bxe137.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I, for one, would love to see them! V. -----Original Message----- From: Lev Lafayette Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:09:58 To:"Discussion of RuneQuest rules." Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Cradle info converted for RQ3 I'm currently planning to run Borderlands, Pavis and Big Rubble in the coming year and will be providing conversion notes asap, if you don't mind the wait :-) --- Rick Meints wrote: > The Gloranthan Classic book - Pavis & Big Rubble > didn't convert or update the information for RQ3. > The info is for RQ2. While someone may have done the > conversion personally, I don't know of anyone who > has said they have done so, or if they?did, whether > they have posted it anywhere on the web. > > While having it converted to RQ3 would make a few > things easier to run, I would think that the RQ2 > info would suffice in most cases. Much of the info > is relatively general in nature, with only some of > the stats and such truly detailed. I would imagine > that the info as presented would work, although > incomplete for things like magic points, etc. > > > Regards, > > Rick Meints > > > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:37:55 -0600 > From: Styopa > > Is there ANYWHERE to find the RQ3 Giant's Cradle > information? > Even the published material refers to it, but IMO > the actual SCENARIO hasn't > been in print forever....I've been 'doing' RQ since > the early '80s and I've > never seen it. I'm nearly certain it never WAS > published for RQ3, only RQ2 > and perhaps only RQ1. > > Even Strangers in Prax refers to it significantly, > timing the arrival of > Arlaten the Magus sometime after the Giant's Cradle > event so that he isn't > somehow associated with it. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL > Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From devinc at aol.com Thu Dec 13 10:30:55 2007 From: devinc at aol.com (devinc at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:30:55 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] SPOILERS .....Krang's Table In-Reply-To: <890312.9452.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <890312.9452.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA0B2E2D6C658E-A20-24AB@WEBMAIL-MC06.sysops.aol.com> I don't have my copy here at work, and it's been a long time since I looked at it, but I was always puzzled by Krang's Table. You are sent to capture the table. Yet the scenario basically has some sort of mistress race troll of unassailable power and a horde of other troll minions guarding it. You go there, get captured, thrown ina cell with a ghost, and that's about it. What, exactly was supposed to happen in that scenario? -----Original Message----- From: Simon Phipp To: rq-rules at crashbox.com Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:14 pm Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? Styopa: >On Dec 12, 2007 1:41 AM, Simon Phipp wrote: > I'd go Welcome to the City, Burglary at Raus' House, Borderlands, Griffin > Gate, Balastor's Barracks, Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on Yelorna, The Devil's > Playground, Krang's Table, The Puzzle Canal, Temple at Feroda, ? Cradle. > > Is there ANYWHERE to find the RQ3 Giant's Cradle information? ? Not RQ3 Giant's Cradle. It was in RQ2's Pavis supplement. > Even the published material refers to it, but IMO the actual SCENARIO hasn't > been in print forever....I've been 'doing' RQ since the early '80s and I've > never seen it.? I'm nearly certain it never WAS published for RQ3, only RQ2 > and perhaps only RQ1. Yep, RQ2. Also reprinted in the Pavis & Big Rubble of the Gloranthan Classics. > Even Strangers in Prax refers to it significantly, timing the arrival of > Arlaten the Magus sometime after the Giant's Cradle event so that he isn't > somehow associated with it. Yes, Arlaten does some stuff after the Cradle, but if you want a campaign to end with the Cradle, then he does things before the Cradle :-) ? > Frustrating. ? I don't know if Rick has any copies of Pavis and Big Rubble left. If not, try and get a copy from a FLGS. ? See Ya Simon ? _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071212/dc68e0e7/attachment.html From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Thu Dec 13 16:31:05 2007 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:31:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? In-Reply-To: <995480.9598.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <750905.28587.qm@web33512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Simon Phipp wrote: > Funnily enough, I'm running a classic Pavis/Praxian > camapign at the moment .... > > I'd go Welcome to the City, Burglary at Raus' House, > Borderlands, Griffin Gate, Balastor's Barracks, > Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on Yelorna, The Devil's > Playground, Krang's Table, The Puzzle Canal, Temple > at Feroda, Cradle. > > If you wanted to include the OTHER Classic Praxian > Scenarios, use River of Cradles, Sun County, Shadows > on the Borderlands and Strangers in Prax. > > Garhound Contest/Melisande's Hand, Troubled Waters > (The Grotto of Pocharngo), Sun County River Ritual, > Rabbit Hat Farm, The Old Sun Dome Temple, > Solinthor's Tower, Guamata's Vision, Welcome to the > City, Burglary at Raus' House, Borderlands, A Tale > to Tell, Griffin Gate, One High Priest Too Many, > Balastor's Barracks, Wolfhead's Lair, Raid on > Yelorna, The Devil's Playground, Dyskund Caverns, > Krang's Table, The Riot, A Home Away From Home, > Black Magic, Ever Burning Torches, River Rafting, > The Vomitor, The Puzzle Canal, Temple at Feroda, > Cradle Whoa! (*goes giddy at the possibility*) Regrettably I only have River of Cradles (and in multiple copies) of the three you mention. > The ones in the middle can be moved around without a > problem, but some depend on other scenarios in some > way. > > If you go further afield, there's a whole load of > interconnected Praxian/Pavic scenarios in > Tradetalk/Tales of the Reaching Moon/RQ Adventures > and P&BR Companions. Take a look at > http://www.soltakss.com/pavis01.html for more > information. > That's pretty extensive. I'll have to look through my copies of Different Worlds and see if I can add anything to the list. "Hopefully, this will give the basis for a Pavis and Praxian Campaign for a party starting at very low level and reaching very high level. It covers 4 or 5 game years and has enough game play for at least a year of real time, assuming one session per week and at least one session per scenario." That's one of things I love best about RuneQuest... All the best, Lev > See Ya > > Simon> _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From soltakss at yahoo.com Thu Dec 13 19:36:35 2007 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 00:36:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: SPOILERS .....Krang's Table Message-ID: <511252.60105.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> SPOILER ALERT: IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY KRANG'S TABLE DON'T READ THIS!!! Devinc: > I don't have my copy here at work, and it's been a long time since I looked at it, but I was always > puzzled by Krang's Table. You are sent to capture the table. Yet the scenario basically has some sort of > mistress race troll of unassailable power and a horde of other troll minions guarding it. You go there, get > captured, thrown ina cell with a ghost, and that's about it. I can't remember the Mistress Race Ghost of unassailable power, presumably that was Krang herself. But, it's a nice little treasure-grab/loot the trolls scenario. I've done it as part of a group and as a soloquest for a reasonably powerful Rune Lord/Priest. It has different challenges when run either way. > What, exactly was supposed to happen in that scenario? You scout around trolltown, avoiding all the nasty trolls, locate Krang's Compund, avoid the troll outriders, get into Krang's Compound, sneak/fight your way into the compound, find the Eiritha Table, sneak/fight your way out while carrying a table big enough to hold a slaughtered rhino. Easy-peasy. Of course, annihilating the redient troll clan is the best way of doing it, unless you are very good at sneaking, very strong or have a way to transport a huge table. I found that going in from the top is the best way - fly to the roof and enter that way, or climb/fly down to an upper-storey window and get in that way. You can avoid most of the guards and only have to cut your way out. In Pavis, there is an underlying plot of being anti-troll, so the annihilation of a clan isn't that much of a problem, really. See Ya Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071213/364eef63/attachment.html From sunwolfek12 at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 16 03:17:00 2007 From: sunwolfek12 at sbcglobal.net (Andre Powell) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:17:00 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Now gone RQ3 website Message-ID: <000d01c83f35$ed182be0$4101a8c0@home> Hi, All: Not long ago there was a website online that posted all the RQ3 rules and then some! I think it was called "Encyclopedia Magical". It was a very convenient, part of a larger personal site, laid out in a clear format with a linked list to various sections to the right of the splash page: RuneQuest, Abilities, Alchemy, Divinespells, etc. etc. After clicking on a link, say Abilities for example, all the skills were charted and listed by name, category, skill difficulty and base chance. Click on a skill and a sweet window came up with a description and the skill info from the grand list summarized. The site contained a lot all the basic skills and spells and those from the supplements and beyond. It was actually an impressive site, well organized and useful as a quick reference. It originally had the IP addy numbers: 60.116.133.185. It now seems to have gone the way of the do-do. By slimmest chance would any of you happened to know if it might have moved...or, by even slimmer chance, might any of you have d/l-ed it and be willing to share a copy? Regards and happy holidays, Sunwolfe "We Fremen have a saying, 'God created Arrakis to train the faithful.' One cannot go against the word of God." --Naib Stilgar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071215/322aadde/attachment.html From Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com Mon Dec 17 20:51:40 2007 From: Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com (Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:51:40 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: <000d01c83f35$ed182be0$4101a8c0@home> Message-ID: >Not long ago there was a website online that posted all the RQ3 rules and then some! I think it was called "Encyclopedia Magical". >It was a very convenient, part of a larger personal site, laid out in a clear format with a linked list to various sections to the right >of the splash page: RuneQuest, Abilities, Alchemy, Divinespells, etc. etc. After clicking on a link, say Abilities for example, all?the > skills were charted and?listed by name, category, skill difficulty and base chance. Click on a skill and a sweet window came up >with a description and the skill info from the grand list summarized. The site contained a lot all the basic skills and spells and those >from the supplements and beyond. It was actually an impressive site, well organized?and useful as a quick reference.?It originally >had the IP addy numbers: 60.116.133.185. That's Leon Kirshtein's (bet I've got the spelling wrong...) site, which has had a history of erratic accessibility. The text of several pages appears to still be accessible via Google's cache, but Leon should be about on the list and may know more. >It now seems to have gone the way of the do-do. By slimmest chance would any of you happened to know if it might have > moved...or, by even slimmer chance, might any of you have d/l-ed it and be willing to share a copy? Leon very kindly gave me an Access copy of the DB a few years back but I've changed machines (and operating systems) since then - and if I CAN locate a copy I'd prefer to have Leon's permission before passing it on.... Mind, given the history of Leon's site, getting a copy of the DB hosted somewhere else as well might not be a bad idea... Cheers, Nick Middleton Any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus detection software prior to transmission but you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL does not accept liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are the property of WRSL and are intended for the confidential use by the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other person without written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately at the following address: Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park, Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD - Tel 01249 441441 Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd is a subsidiary of Invensys Plc. Registered office: Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF. Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421. From leonbk at yahoo.com Tue Dec 18 23:30:54 2007 From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:30:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <398995.72793.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com wrote: > >Not long ago there was a website online that > posted all the RQ3 rules and > then some! I think it was called "Encyclopedia > Magical". > >It was a very convenient, part of a larger > personal site, laid out in a > clear format with a linked list to various sections > to the right > >of the splash page: RuneQuest, Abilities, Alchemy, > Divinespells, etc. > etc. After clicking on a link, say Abilities for > example, all the > > skills were charted and listed by name, category, > skill difficulty and > base chance. Click on a skill and a sweet window > came up > >with a description and the skill info from the > grand list summarized. The > site contained a lot all the basic skills and > spells and those > >from the supplements and beyond. It was actually > an impressive site, well > organized and useful as a quick reference. It > originally > >had the IP addy numbers: 60.116.133.185. > > That's Leon Kirshtein's (bet I've got the spelling > wrong...) site, which > has had a history of erratic accessibility. The text > of several pages > appears to still be accessible via Google's cache, > but Leon should be about > on the list and may know more. The site is still up at www.godlearner.d2g.com/main.asp and thanks for the kind words. > > Mind, given the history of Leon's site, getting a > copy of the DB hosted > somewhere else as well might not be a bad idea... Grumble, grumble it goes through a period of kid outages. Basically when one of my kids decides to start playing games on the computer I use as a the server. If you are subject to one of these, just email me and I will reboot the machine. Leon (you spelled it correctly) Kirshtein ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From leonbk at yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 23:59:48 2007 From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 04:59:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <124487.12256.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com wrote: > >Not long ago there was a website online that > posted all the RQ3 rules and > then some! I think it was called "Encyclopedia > Magical". > >It was a very convenient, part of a larger > personal site, laid out in a > clear format with a linked list to various sections > to the right > >of the splash page: RuneQuest, Abilities, Alchemy, > Divinespells, etc. > etc. After clicking on a link, say Abilities for > example, all the > > skills were charted and listed by name, category, > skill difficulty and > base chance. Click on a skill and a sweet window > came up > >with a description and the skill info from the > grand list summarized. The > site contained a lot all the basic skills and > spells and those > >from the supplements and beyond. It was actually > an impressive site, well > organized and useful as a quick reference. It > originally > >had the IP addy numbers: 60.116.133.185. > > That's Leon Kirshtein's (bet I've got the spelling > wrong...) site, which > has had a history of erratic accessibility. The text > of several pages > appears to still be accessible via Google's cache, > but Leon should be about > on the list and may know more. Its still there, but my kids have a tendency of 'playing' on the server and shutting it down. The address is: http://godlearner.d2g.com/main.asp Leon ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 19 13:41:41 2007 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:41:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: <124487.12256.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <737230.75398.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Leon Kirshtein wrote: > > Its still there, but my kids have a tendency of > 'playing' on the server and shutting it down. The > address is: > > http://godlearner.d2g.com/main.asp Mmm, quite... lev at sys09:~$ ping godlearner.d2g.com PING godlearner.d2g.com (67.82.13.87) 56(84) bytes of data. --- godlearner.d2g.com ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 3001ms lev at sys09:~$ ping www.d2g.com PING dns2go.com (65.117.119.140) 56(84) bytes of data. --- dns2go.com ping statistics --- 7 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6002ms lev at sys09:~$ Damn pesky kids ;-) Are you sure you don't want to host it somewhere a little more stable? All the best, Lev ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From postmaster at runequest.za.org Wed Dec 19 18:25:03 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:25:03 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel Message-ID: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> I suppose this could be RQ related. Some of you may recall the old Conan movie and "The Riddle of Steel" I was thinking of integrating a bit of this thought process in my campaign, especially as my game world is pretty much bronze age to early iron age. Some specialised lads may have steel, but its very rare. So what was the riddle. Any ideas of how one try to solve the riddle. Off the top of my head, I am thinking of perhaps a heroquest, or similar for some long lost/alien knowledge. Or perhaps the longer someone devotes his research time to solving the riddle (Against what skill, a weapon or maybe knowledge?) he then gets some sort of special bonus. Dunno what, maybe he gets a plus X change of a special attack or such. Any thoughts? Tony From soltakss at yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 18:45:44 2007 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:45:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Classic RuneQuest: How Would You Do It? Message-ID: <467377.69080.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Lev Lafayette (quoting from my article): > "Hopefully, this will give the basis for a Pavis and > Praxian Campaign for a party starting at very low > level and reaching very high level. It covers 4 or 5 > game years and has enough game play for at least a > year of real time, assuming one session per week and > at least one session per scenario." Well, we started the River of Cradles scenario in July and have just finished it (with a few additions on the way) so a year's gaming material is way under. At the moment, they've probably got 2 years of material and, as we now play 2 weeks Rq/2 weeks HQ, that's probably 4 years of real-time gaming. We like to think ahead .... See Ya Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071218/ca24b5f8/attachment.html From vikingjarl at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 18:56:55 2007 From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:56:55 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> Simplified: the riddle of steel is: even though steel can cut a man.. Man makes steel & can destroy steel (ie: melt it down) & thus is stronger than steel. Here' some thoughts for you that simplify history to the extreme but should spark campaign ideas: In history Mankind didn't go directly from bronze to steel, an "Iron Age" came first. Bronze is "harder" on the Moh scale when tempered than is iron but is far more brittle & shatters on side-loading stresses. Soft iron can often bend (an example from the Viking Sagas is when a duelist trading blows with another fighter in Holmgang [a very formal duel] he has to straighten his sword after every blow) but doesn't shatter as readily as bronze. It will also hold a sharper more durable edge when properly tempered. It was with Iron swords that the early "Arian Barbarian Invaders", such as the later Kelts, defeated the Bronze edged civilizations. Iron swords would often break or cleave thru a bronze sword & that is a very great advantage. Steel was not common until the Bessemer process made it "iron Age smiths in Northern Europe found the remains of a massive Meteoritic-Steel strike & made some rather nice nickel-iron blades from that (possibly the source of the Legendary swords such as Excalibur, Curtana, Joyeuse, etc) which were even better than the contempary Iron swords. Note that early iron swords such as most spatha, gladii, Keltic broadswords lacked a fuller (misnomered blood groove) & were heavier. The fullered swords were lighter, stronger & better. This information could give you a nice range of weapons within a logical structure: 1) common bronze swords with standard Armour points & reduced by continued damage. 2) Spell enhanced bronze weapons making them a runic weapon that is the equivalent of an iron weapon. Perhaps even superior to an iron sword in cutting until damaged or the spell broken. 3) Uncommon iron weapons with slightly greater Armour points - these are great weapons perhaps mistaken for a runic metal 4) Rare steel swords of the old pattern with even greater armour points & doing greater damage. More likely to break bronze weapons & armour. This is a true Runic weapon 5) So extremely rare as to be mythic fullered steel swords made from meteoritic steel, well made & legendary doing a lot more damage & having a lot more amour points. Thus likely break bronze weapons & armour. A legendary Runic weapon. I hope those ideas & information helps. Good luck Tony. Skol, Sven postmaster at runequest.za.org wrote: > I suppose this could be RQ related. Some of you may recall the old Conan > movie and "The Riddle of Steel" I was thinking of integrating a bit of > this thought process in my campaign, especially as my game world is pretty > much bronze age to early iron age. Some specialised lads may have steel, > but its very rare. > > So what was the riddle. Any ideas of how one try to solve the riddle. Off > the top of my head, I am thinking of perhaps a heroquest, or similar for > some long lost/alien knowledge. Or perhaps the longer someone devotes his > research time to solving the riddle (Against what skill, a weapon or maybe > knowledge?) he then gets some sort of special bonus. Dunno what, maybe he > gets a plus X change of a special attack or such. > > Any thoughts? > Tony > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > From gazza666 at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 19:00:47 2007 From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:00:47 +0900 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ebd81400712190000v3d04babcn480d4ad289301a72@mail.gmail.com> On 19/12/2007, Sven Lugar wrote: > Simplified: the riddle of steel is: even though steel can cut a man.. > Man makes steel & can destroy steel (ie: melt it down) & thus is > stronger than steel. (snip rest of stuff) That was very interesting, and I really don't mean to sound snide, but I think he was more after some sort of HeroQuest ideas (correct me if I'm wrong)? -- GAZZA From vikingjarl at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 19:06:23 2007 From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:06:23 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <4768D0FF.3060900@gmail.com> addendum - sorry I'm tired & still recovering from surgery. Riddle of Steel: remember too besides Man being able to make & unmake steel - man also wields the steel & it is his strength & skill that is the master of the steel since a steel sword will not wield itself. skol, Sven postmaster at runequest.za.org wrote: > I suppose this could be RQ related. Some of you may recall the old Conan > movie and "The Riddle of Steel" I was thinking of integrating a bit of > this thought process in my campaign, especially as my game world is pretty > much bronze age to early iron age. Some specialised lads may have steel, > but its very rare. > > So what was the riddle. Any ideas of how one try to solve the riddle. Off > the top of my head, I am thinking of perhaps a heroquest, or similar for > some long lost/alien knowledge. Or perhaps the longer someone devotes his > research time to solving the riddle (Against what skill, a weapon or maybe > knowledge?) he then gets some sort of special bonus. Dunno what, maybe he > gets a plus X change of a special attack or such. > > Any thoughts? > Tony > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > From postmaster at runequest.za.org Thu Dec 20 00:35:31 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:35:31 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25823.196.8.104.31.1198071331.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Sven wrote: > Simplified: the riddle of steel is: even though steel can cut a man.. > Man makes steel & can destroy steel (ie: melt it down) & thus is > stronger than steel. > Many thanks Sve, this helps immensly and has already opened up several avenues I had not considered. Cheers Tony From postmaster at runequest.za.org Thu Dec 20 00:36:50 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:36:50 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400712190000v3d04babcn480d4ad289301a72@mail.gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <9ebd81400712190000v3d04babcn480d4ad289301a72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29028.196.8.104.31.1198071410.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> GAZZA wrote: > That was very interesting, and I really don't mean to sound snide, but > I think he was more after some sort of HeroQuest ideas (correct me if > I'm wrong)? > -- > No, actually just any sort of idea, I just mentioned a heroquest tyoe sceanrio as a possibility. Cheers Tony From postmaster at runequest.za.org Thu Dec 20 00:41:02 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:41:02 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4768D0FF.3060900@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768D0FF.3060900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <39299.196.8.104.31.1198071662.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> > addendum - sorry I'm tired & still recovering from surgery. > Riddle of Steel: remember too besides Man being able to make & unmake > steel - man also wields the steel & it is his strength & skill that is > the master of the steel since a steel sword will not wield itself. > skol, > Sven > > Good point also. Heres a thought, if the world being played in ahs other sentient weapon wielding races, one could explore the thought that certain peoples (Elvers, faerie etc) may become physically sick, or have taboo on anything with iron in it. (Thing I read some authors ideas on this way back about the Fay only using copper etc). So that could also be part of the riddle in some way. Thanks again Tony From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Dec 20 02:10:56 2007 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:10:56 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'd just like to comment that steel is not a fixed entety; it's a mix of iron and carbon, and actually many vikingswords were made of steel. Pattern-welding is a technique used to mesh carbon into iron, so steel was common far earlier than one can be lead to believe by Svens post. > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:56:55 -0800> From: vikingjarl at gmail.com> To: rq-rules at crashbox.com> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel> > Simplified: the riddle of steel is: even though steel can cut a man.. > Man makes steel & can destroy steel (ie: melt it down) & thus is > stronger than steel.> > Here' some thoughts for you that simplify history to the extreme but > should spark campaign ideas: In history Mankind didn't go directly from > bronze to steel, an "Iron Age" came first. Bronze is "harder" on the Moh > scale when tempered than is iron but is far more brittle & shatters on > side-loading stresses. Soft iron can often bend (an example from the > Viking Sagas is when a duelist trading blows with another fighter in > Holmgang [a very formal duel] he has to straighten his sword after every > blow) but doesn't shatter as readily as bronze. It will also hold a > sharper more durable edge when properly tempered. It was with Iron > swords that the early "Arian Barbarian Invaders", such as the later > Kelts, defeated the Bronze edged civilizations. Iron swords would often > break or cleave thru a bronze sword & that is a very great advantage. > Steel was not common until the Bessemer process made it "iron Age > smiths in Northern Europe found the remains of a massive > Meteoritic-Steel strike & made some rather nice nickel-iron blades from > that (possibly the source of the Legendary swords such as Excalibur, > Curtana, Joyeuse, etc) which were even better than the contempary Iron > swords. Note that early iron swords such as most spatha, gladii, Keltic > broadswords lacked a fuller (misnomered blood groove) & were heavier. > The fullered swords were lighter, stronger & better.> This information could give you a nice range of weapons within a logical > structure:> 1) common bronze swords with standard Armour points & reduced by > continued damage.> 2) Spell enhanced bronze weapons making them a runic weapon that is the > equivalent of an iron weapon. Perhaps even superior to an iron sword in > cutting until damaged or the spell broken.> 3) Uncommon iron weapons with slightly greater Armour points - these are > great weapons perhaps mistaken for a runic metal> 4) Rare steel swords of the old pattern with even greater armour points > & doing greater damage. More likely to break bronze weapons & armour. > This is a true Runic weapon> 5) So extremely rare as to be mythic fullered steel swords made from > meteoritic steel, well made & legendary doing a lot more damage & having > a lot more amour points. Thus likely break bronze weapons & armour. A > legendary Runic weapon.> > I hope those ideas & information helps. Good luck Tony.> Skol,> Sven> > postmaster at runequest.za.org wrote:> > I suppose this could be RQ related. Some of you may recall the old Conan> > movie and "The Riddle of Steel" I was thinking of integrating a bit of> > this thought process in my campaign, especially as my game world is pretty> > much bronze age to early iron age. Some specialised lads may have steel,> > but its very rare.> >> > So what was the riddle. Any ideas of how one try to solve the riddle. Off> > the top of my head, I am thinking of perhaps a heroquest, or similar for> > some long lost/alien knowledge. Or perhaps the longer someone devotes his> > research time to solving the riddle (Against what skill, a weapon or maybe> > knowledge?) he then gets some sort of special bonus. Dunno what, maybe he> > gets a plus X change of a special attack or such.> >> > Any thoughts?> > Tony> > _______________________________________________> > RQ-Rules mailing list> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules> >> > > _______________________________________________> RQ-Rules mailing list> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071219/a052b4c6/attachment.html From jurrubin at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 02:13:45 2007 From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:13:45 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: <737230.75398.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <124487.12256.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <737230.75398.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c92296e0712190713u6df6c471w3d6b95fbde3641e0@mail.gmail.com> LOL. Now getting... "The server at godlearner.d2g.com is taking too long to respond." On Dec 18, 2007 8:41 PM, Lev Lafayette wrote: > > --- Leon Kirshtein wrote: > > > > > Its still there, but my kids have a tendency of > > 'playing' on the server and shutting it down.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071219/ef93f62c/attachment.html From vikingjarl at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 03:44:42 2007 From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:44:42 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> I am well aware of the Viking techniques for pattern welding blades having made reproductions of them myself. It is labor intensive and even weapons such as axes might only have a little edge of steel for the blade welded to an iron body. Still the archaeological evidence shows that they weren't quite as prevalent as most people think & the common fighter made use of the spear & axe more often than the sword. Many sword finds were of poorer quality steel (not much better than iron) or even plain iron during the viking age, hence my mention of an incident out of the sagas. Steel was not so common that it was used for everyday objects such as plowshares, etc. At the time any steel was extremely valued as opposed to our modern attitude of it being so commonplace as to not be noticeable. I apologize if that was not clear. Skol, Sven Bjorn Stolen wrote: > I'd just like to comment that steel is not a fixed entety; it's a mix > of iron and carbon, and actually many vikingswords were made of steel. > Pattern-welding is a technique used to mesh carbon into iron, so steel > was common far earlier than one can be lead to believe by Svens post. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:56:55 -0800 > > From: vikingjarl at gmail.com > > To: rq-rules at crashbox.com > > Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel > > > > Simplified: the riddle of steel is: even though steel can cut a man.. > > Man makes steel & can destroy steel (ie: melt it down) & thus is > > stronger than steel. > > > > Here' some thoughts for you that simplify history to the extreme but > > should spark campaign ideas: In history Mankind didn't go directly from > > bronze to steel, an "Iron Age" came first. Bronze is "harder" on the > Moh > > scale when tempered than is iron but is far more brittle & shatters on > > side-loading stresses. Soft iron can often bend (an example from the > > Viking Sagas is when a duelist trading blows with another fighter in > > Holmgang [a very formal duel] he has to straighten his sword after > every > > blow) but doesn't shatter as readily as bronze. It will also hold a > > sharper more durable edge when properly tempered. It was with Iron > > swords that the early "Arian Barbarian Invaders", such as the later > > Kelts, defeated the Bronze edged civilizations. Iron swords would often > > break or cleave thru a bronze sword & that is a very great advantage. > > Steel was not common until the Bessemer process made it "iron Age > > smiths in Northern Europe found the remains of a massive > > Meteoritic-Steel strike & made some rather nice nickel-iron blades from > > that (possibly the source of the Legendary swords such as Excalibur, > > Curtana, Joyeuse, etc) which were even better than the contempary Iron > > swords. Note that early iron swords such as most spatha, gladii, Keltic > > broadswords lacked a fuller (misnomered blood groove) & were heavier. > > The fullered swords were lighter, stronger & better. > > This information could give you a nice range of weapons within a > logical > > structure: > > 1) common bronze swords with standard Armour points & reduced by > > continued damage. > > 2) Spell enhanced bronze weapons making them a runic weapon that is the > > equivalent of an iron weapon. Perhaps even superior to an iron sword in > > cutting until damaged or the spell broken. > > 3) Uncommon iron weapons with slightly greater Armour points - these > are > > great weapons perhaps mistaken for a runic metal > > 4) Rare steel swords of the old pattern with even greater armour points > > & doing greater damage. More likely to break bronze weapons & armour. > > This is a true Runic weapon > > 5) So extremely rare as to be mythic fullered steel swords made from > > meteoritic steel, well made & legendary doing a lot more damage & > having > > a lot more amour points. Thus likely break bronze weapons & armour. A > > legendary Runic weapon. > > > > I hope those ideas & information helps. Good luck Tony. > > Skol, > > Sven > > > > postmaster at runequest.za.org wrote: > > > I suppose this could be RQ related. Some of you may recall the old > Conan > > > movie and "The Riddle of Steel" I was thinking of integrating a bit of > > > this thought process in my campaign, especially as my game world > is pretty > > > much bronze age to early iron age. Some specialised lads may have > steel, > > > but its very rare. > > > > > > So what was the riddle. Any ideas of how one try to solve the > riddle. Off > > > the top of my head, I am thinking of perhaps a heroquest, or > similar for > > > some long lost/alien knowledge. Or perhaps the longer someone > devotes his > > > research time to solving the riddle (Against what skill, a weapon > or maybe > > > knowledge?) he then gets some sort of special bonus. Dunno what, > maybe he > > > gets a plus X change of a special attack or such. > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > > > RQ-Rules mailing list > > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > RQ-Rules mailing list > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071219/d02b8a3e/attachment.html From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Dec 20 07:10:15 2007 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:10:15 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry if I seemed pedantic, I agree 100% to what you write here. The spear is undisputedly the no.1 weapon, together with the shield in viking times, and despite the fact that over 2000 vikingswords have been found in Norway alone, the axe or the sword (depending on social standing and personal preferences) was rather a back-up-weapon. I just thought that your initial post gave the impression that steel wasn't "invented" until late medieval times, and I wanted to get across that steel was invented as early as iron. It's actually difficult to get 100% pure iron, as long as you heat it with coal, as coal have carbon, and have a tendency to bind with iron under the right circomstances, so allmost any iron item have some degree of carbon in it, and the Iron Age should be regarded as an age where different levels of steel took over for bronze, rather than an era that can be subdivided into two sub-groups called "iron-age" and "steel-age" IMHO. One example in this from late medieval times, is why the controversy on wether longbow-arrows could penentrate plate armor or not still rages on. It's simply difficult to establish the relative hardness between the arrowheads and the armor, as both were made from iron with more or less carbon in it. I actually know about a smith that studyes medieval blacksmithing, who have friends who dives on old shipwrecks in search for old "iron" from pre-industrialized times, that they can use for testing :) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:44:42 -0800From: vikingjarl at gmail.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.comSubject: Re: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel I am well aware of the Viking techniques for pattern welding blades having made reproductions of them myself. It is labor intensive and even weapons such as axes might only have a little edge of steel for the blade welded to an iron body. Still the archaeological evidence shows that they weren't quite as prevalent as most people think & the common fighter made use of the spear & axe more often than the sword. Many sword finds were of poorer quality steel (not much better than iron) or even plain iron during the viking age, hence my mention of an incident out of the sagas. Steel was not so common that it was used for everyday objects such as plowshares, etc. At the time any steel was extremely valued as opposed to our modern attitude of it being so commonplace as to not be noticeable. I apologize if that was not clear.Skol,SvenBjorn Stolen wrote: I'd just like to comment that steel is not a fixed entety; it's a mix of iron and carbon, and actually many vikingswords were made of steel. Pattern-welding is a technique used to mesh carbon into iron, so steel was common far earlier than one can be lead to believe by Svens post. > Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:56:55 -0800> From: vikingjarl at gmail.com> To: rq-rules at crashbox.com> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel> > Simplified: the riddle of steel is: even though steel can cut a man.. > Man makes steel & can destroy steel (ie: melt it down) & thus is > stronger than steel.> > Here' some thoughts for you that simplify history to the extreme but > should spark campaign ideas: In history Mankind didn't go directly from > bronze to steel, an "Iron Age" came first. Bronze is "harder" on the Moh > scale when tempered than is iron but is far more brittle & shatters on > side-loading stresses. Soft iron can often bend (an example from the > Viking Sagas is when a duelist trading blows with another fighter in > Holmgang [a very formal duel] he has to straighten his sword after every > blow) but doesn't shatter as readily as bronze. It will also hold a > sharper more durable edge when properly tempered. It was with Iron > swords that the early "Arian Barbarian Invaders", such as the later > Kelts, defeated the Bronze edged civilizations. Iron swords would often > break or cleave thru a bronze sword & that is a very great advantage. > Steel was not common until the Bessemer process made it "iron Age > smiths in Northern Europe found the remains of a massive > Meteoritic-Steel strike & made some rather nice nickel-iron blades from > that (possibly the source of the Legendary swords such as Excalibur, > Curtana, Joyeuse, etc) which were even better than the contempary Iron > swords. Note that early iron swords such as most spatha, gladii, Keltic > broadswords lacked a fuller (misnomered blood groove) & were heavier. > The fullered swords were lighter, stronger & better.> This information could give you a nice range of weapons within a logical > structure:> 1) common bronze swords with standard Armour points & reduced by > continued damage.> 2) Spell enhanced bronze weapons making them a runic weapon that is the > equivalent of an iron weapon. Perhaps even superior to an iron sword in > cutting until damaged or the spell broken.> 3) Uncommon iron weapons with slightly greater Armour points - these are > great weapons perhaps mistaken for a runic metal> 4) Rare steel swords of the old pattern with even greater armour points > & doing greater damage. More likely to break bronze weapons & armour. > This is a true Runic weapon> 5) So extremely rare as to be mythic fullered steel swords made from > meteoritic steel, well made & legendary doing a lot more damage & having > a lot more amour points. Thus likely break bronze weapons & armour. A > legendary Runic weapon.> > I hope those ideas & information helps. Good luck Tony.> Skol,> Sven> > postmaster at runequest.za.org wrote:> > I suppose this could be RQ related. Some of you may recall the old Conan> > movie and "The Riddle of Steel" I was thinking of integrating a bit of> > this thought process in my campaign, especially as my game world is pretty> > much bronze age to early iron age. Some specialised lads may have steel,> > but its very rare.> >> > So what was the riddle. Any ideas of how one try to solve the riddle. Off> > the top of my head, I am thinking of perhaps a heroquest, or similar for> > some long lost/alien knowledge. Or perhaps the longer someone devotes his> > research time to solving the riddle (Against what skill, a weapon or maybe> > knowledge?) he then gets some sort of special bonus. Dunno what, maybe he> > gets a plus X change of a special attack or such.> >> > Any thoughts?> > Tony> > _______________________________________________> > RQ-Rules mailing list> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules> >> > > _______________________________________________> RQ-Rules mailing list> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071219/f4f624a9/attachment.html From vikingjarl at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 11:23:25 2007 From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:23:25 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> You are quite right. This is a very detailed topic and hard to summarize as briefly as I did & be absolutely accurate. I was trying to give a "feel" & an overview so that it was readable. I'm glad there is someone with a deep enough understanding to regarding historical metallurgy to see the past the overview. I took no offense but rather, as you can see, I was happy to read your input. 100% pure iron is even rarer than 24 carat gold because of it's binding properties and the very process of heating it in a primitive forge adds a certain element of carbon. Much of early iron was found as nodules in bogs that already had gone through a binding process (rusting into iron oxide or sulfates in the peat if nothing else) & weren't 100% pure iron. The earliest uses were just heated & hammered into a rough shape. All that aside, that incidental level of carbon produces a rather uneven & irregular quality of steel that for all intense & purposes counts as "iron". Quality steels such as found in Viking swords (high carbon layered against low-carbon- or "pure" iron for strength with flexibility) required more metallurgical knowledge (iron specific) than was present in bronze cultures and would take a bit of time & doesn't occur naturally. However, the meteor strike in Northern Europe left bits of high-grade nickel-iron steel in a great combination for making weapons scattered over the landscape. This was perfect for really high-grade weapons that wasn't to occur in a man-made form until after the invention of the blast furnace. I know smiths who still pay an arm, leg, & a testicle to get enough to make weapons out of meteoritic steel. May I recommend Jim Hrisoulas's books on sword making (He was a good teacher all those years ago) Skol, Sven Bjorn Stolen wrote: > Sorry if I seemed pedantic, I agree 100% to what you write here. The > spear is undisputedly the no.1 weapon, together with the shield in > viking times, and despite the fact that over 2000 vikingswords have > been found in Norway alone, the axe or the sword (depending on social > standing and personal preferences) was rather a back-up-weapon. > > I just thought that your initial post gave the impression that steel > wasn't "invented" until late medieval times, and I wanted to get > across that steel was invented as early as iron. It's actually > difficult to get 100% pure iron, as long as you heat it with coal, as > coal have carbon, and have a tendency to bind with iron under the > right circomstances, so allmost any iron item have some degree of > carbon in it, and the Iron Age should be regarded as an age where > different levels of steel took over for bronze, rather than an era > that can be subdivided into two sub-groups called "iron-age" and > "steel-age" IMHO. > > One example in this from late medieval times, is why the controversy > on wether longbow-arrows could penentrate plate armor or not still > rages on. It's simply difficult to establish the relative hardness > between the arrowheads and the armor, as both were made from iron with > more or less carbon in it. I actually know about a smith that studyes > medieval blacksmithing, who have friends who dives on old shipwrecks > in search for old "iron" from pre-industrialized times, that they can > use for testing :) > > ...snip... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071219/41d5ca8e/attachment.html From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Thu Dec 20 12:32:33 2007 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:32:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: <398995.72793.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <89467.24820.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Leon Kirshtein wrote: > > The site is still up at > www.godlearner.d2g.com/main.asp and thanks for the > kind words. Hooray for wget -r I now have a copy of the entire site :-) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From leonbk at yahoo.com Thu Dec 20 13:37:22 2007 From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:37:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Now gone RQ3 website In-Reply-To: <89467.24820.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <273520.52276.qm@web51701.mail.re2.yahoo.com> But not the database. Leon --- Lev Lafayette wrote: > > --- Leon Kirshtein wrote: > > > > > The site is still up at > > www.godlearner.d2g.com/main.asp and thanks for the > > kind words. > > Hooray for wget -r > > I now have a copy of the entire site :-) > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Fri Dec 21 06:28:01 2007 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:28:01 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's so difficult to be brief and still get all the nyances through. I'm beginning to suspect that you know more on this topic than me. What I believe on this topic is that the knowledge of making good quality steel weapons emerged pretty early, but (apart from during the semi-industrialized roman era) the knowledge was distributed pretty randomly from smith to smith. I base this wiew on the fact that we have fantastic swords from early times that shows pattern welded blades (from x-rays) far earlier than the late medieval times. Iron from ores from the ruhr valley had a reputation of beeing of very good quality, and that was probably where the modern industrialized iron-processing started in the late medieval times (1400-) In fact, frankish swords were in high esteem as early as viking-age, and the frankish issued a ban on sword-export to the vikings. Steel quality probably started getting better and better on averidge from 1400 and onwards, and as emphasis moved from flexible blades to reliable firearms, different qualities in the steel allso emerged. That beeing said, I don't think that all blades were of high pattern welded steel quality. In fact, several vikingswords found in Norway, is little more than a banged out blade and whatever"steel" you find in the blade is on the surface that was in contact with the iron. Not only norwegian king-sagas from 1200 mentions blades bending in combat, and having to be straightened during battle, allso the longsword-manual Fior di Battaglia from 1410 mentions a technique where you step on your opponents blade, and that this often vill result in the blade breaking (too brittle) or bending (too soft) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:23:25 -0800From: vikingjarl at gmail.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.comSubject: Re: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel You are quite right. This is a very detailed topic and hard to summarize as briefly as I did & be absolutely accurate. I was trying to give a "feel" & an overview so that it was readable. I'm glad there is someone with a deep enough understanding to regarding historical metallurgy to see the past the overview. I took no offense but rather, as you can see, I was happy to read your input. 100% pure iron is even rarer than 24 carat gold because of it's binding properties and the very process of heating it in a primitive forge adds a certain element of carbon. Much of early iron was found as nodules in bogs that already had gone through a binding process (rusting into iron oxide or sulfates in the peat if nothing else) & weren't 100% pure iron. The earliest uses were just heated & hammered into a rough shape. All that aside, that incidental level of carbon produces a rather uneven & irregular quality of steel that for all intense & purposes counts as "iron". Quality steels such as found in Viking swords (high carbon layered against low-carbon- or "pure" iron for strength with flexibility) required more metallurgical knowledge (iron specific) than was present in bronze cultures and would take a bit of time & doesn't occur naturally. However, the meteor strike in Northern Europe left bits of high-grade nickel-iron steel in a great combination for making weapons scattered over the landscape. This was perfect for really high-grade weapons that wasn't to occur in a man-made form until after the invention of the blast furnace. I know smiths who still pay an arm, leg, & a testicle to get enough to make weapons out of meteoritic steel. May I recommend Jim Hrisoulas's books on sword making (He was a good teacher all those years ago)Skol,Sven Bjorn Stolen wrote: Sorry if I seemed pedantic, I agree 100% to what you write here. The spear is undisputedly the no.1 weapon, together with the shield in viking times, and despite the fact that over 2000 vikingswords have been found in Norway alone, the axe or the sword (depending on social standing and personal preferences) was rather a back-up-weapon.I just thought that your initial post gave the impression that steel wasn't "invented" until late medieval times, and I wanted to get across that steel was invented as early as iron. It's actually difficult to get 100% pure iron, as long as you heat it with coal, as coal have carbon, and have a tendency to bind with iron under the right circomstances, so allmost any iron item have some degree of carbon in it, and the Iron Age should be regarded as an age where different levels of steel took over for bronze, rather than an era that can be subdivided into two sub-groups called "iron-age" and "steel-age" IMHO. One example in this from late medieval times, is why the controversy on wether longbow-arrows could penentrate plate armor or not still rages on. It's simply difficult to establish the relative hardness between the arrowheads and the armor, as both were made from iron with more or less carbon in it. I actually know about a smith that studyes medieval blacksmithing, who have friends who dives on old shipwrecks in search for old "iron" from pre-industrialized times, that they can use for testing :) ...snip... _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071220/137604ba/attachment.html From vikingjarl at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 11:40:13 2007 From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:40:13 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <476C5CED.2040706@gmail.com> Spot on my friend, you get the picture precisely! Steel was increasingly available, in widely varying quality, but not common until later periods even in the very late Bronze Age to bronze poor areas (heck probably even as a nice rock for an club in the neolithic). This is a great thing for the Roleplayer as it provides a logical progression of blade qualities (see my original post) from common to Runic. I feel, as to other archaeologists, that the famous blades (Excalibur, Tyrfing, Joyeuse, Curtana, etc), usually attributed to the Smith-God Weyland/Volund, were in fact early period weapons that came from a smith or family of smiths who happened across a large find of meteoritic nickel-iron steel. Because of the innate quality of the blend they would, as legend tells us, cut through ordinary weapons without dulling. Probably a matter of a better than average smith with a superior supply of raw material. Imagine gaming a quest for some "Star Stones" to make a Runic weapon. BTW, I really appreciate your knowledge of this topic. My apologies if I seemed in any way to strident or condescending. I really try not too in my emails but it's one of my favorite topics even back with Steve when he was writing RQ. I confess to showing off the blades I made to the gaming group back then. Good Yule! Sven Bjorn Stolen wrote: > It's so difficult to be brief and still get all the nyances through. > I'm beginning to suspect that you know more on this topic than me. > What I believe on this topic is that the knowledge of making good > quality steel weapons emerged pretty early, but (apart from during the > semi-industrialized roman era) the knowledge was distributed pretty > randomly from smith to smith. I base this wiew on the fact that we > have fantastic swords from early times that shows pattern welded > blades (from x-rays) far earlier than the late medieval times. Iron > from ores from the ruhr valley had a reputation of beeing of very good > quality, and that was probably where the modern industrialized > iron-processing started in the late medieval times (1400-) In fact, > frankish swords were in high esteem as early as viking-age, and the > frankish issued a ban on sword-export to the vikings. Steel quality > probably started getting better and better on averidge from 1400 and > onwards, and as emphasis moved from flexible blades to reliable > firearms, different qualities in the steel allso emerged. > > That beeing said, I don't think that all blades were of high pattern > welded steel quality. In fact, several vikingswords found in > Norway, is little more than a banged out blade and whatever"steel" you > find in the blade is on the surface that was in contact with the iron. > Not only norwegian king-sagas from 1200 mentions blades bending in > combat, and having to be straightened during battle, allso the > longsword-manual Fior di Battaglia from 1410 mentions a technique > where you step on your opponents blade, and that this often vill > result in the blade breaking (too brittle) or bending (too soft) > > > ...snip... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071221/d782c415/attachment.html From steve at perrinworlds.com Sat Dec 22 12:07:06 2007 From: steve at perrinworlds.com (steve at perrinworlds.com) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:07:06 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel Message-ID: <20071221180706.c4297ba71348db059c9d523c82d31b42.deecbe7664.wbe@email.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071221/a3a116f8/attachment.html From sdavies2720 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 23 03:49:49 2007 From: sdavies2720 at yahoo.com (Steve Davies) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:49:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Meteoric Iron/Steel Sword Encounter In-Reply-To: <20071222010712.CED8B10C4EDC@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <571243.33915.qm@web53905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:40:13 -0800 > From: Sven Lugar > Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of > Steel > ...snip... < > ... Imagine gaming a quest for some > "Star Stones" to make a > Runic weapon. > ...snip... < About 3 years ago (real time) I had a metal meteorite strike near enough to my adventuring heroes that they could have easily found it. Their reaction? "Hmm, if there's no encounter, I'm going back to sleep." The next day they meandered off on their way back to civilization. *Sigh* The broos, trolls, and two human clans that also saw it, and who all approached, had a really interesting (off camera) encounter. Steve Steven D. Davies PerfectJob Software 312.560.4577 mobile From jurrubin at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 23:31:54 2007 From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 06:31:54 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Meteoric Iron/Steel Sword Encounter In-Reply-To: <571243.33915.qm@web53905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20071222010712.CED8B10C4EDC@mini.thinbits.net> <571243.33915.qm@web53905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c92296e0712230431r21cb84cdy9c3063dd74e91b77@mail.gmail.com> Hopefully it didn't include tall machines walking on tripod legs and firing a heat ray. On Dec 22, 2007 10:49 AM, Steve Davies wrote: > > About 3 years ago (real time) I had a metal meteorite > strike near enough to my adventuring heroes that they > could have easily found it. Their reaction? "Hmm, if > there's no encounter, I'm going back to sleep." The > next day they meandered off on their way back to > civilization. > > *Sigh* The broos, trolls, and two human clans that > also saw it, and who all approached, had a really > interesting (off camera) encounter. > > Steve > > > Steven D. Davies > PerfectJob Software > 312.560.4577 mobile > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071223/08191b9e/attachment.html From postmaster at runequest.za.org Mon Dec 24 18:34:09 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:34:09 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <476C5CED.2040706@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> <476C5CED.2040706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <38848.196.8.104.31.1198481649.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Sven wrote: > Spot on my friend, you get the picture precisely! Steel was increasingly > available, in widely varying quality, but not common until later periods > even in the very late Bronze Age to bronze poor areas (heck probably > even as a nice rock for an club in the neolithic). This is a great thing > for the Roleplayer as it provides a logical progression of blade > qualities (see my original post) from common to Runic. I feel, as to > other archaeologists, that the famous blades (Excalibur, Tyrfing, > Joyeuse, Curtana, etc), usually attributed to the Smith-God > Weyland/Volund, were in fact early period weapons that came from a smith > or family of smiths who happened across a large find of meteoritic > nickel-iron steel. Because of the innate quality of the blend they > would, as legend tells us, cut through ordinary weapons without dulling. > Probably a matter of a better than average smith with a superior supply > of raw material. Imagine gaming a quest for some "Star Stones" to make a > Runic weapon. Another interesting off spin could be the star steel has some sort of radioactive or mutative properties. Could explain why the smith Ragin ended up becoming a dwarf and or was considered a bit hideous by the time he made Sigifriths sword. From postmaster at runequest.za.org Mon Dec 24 18:36:53 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:36:53 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Meteoric Iron/Steel Sword Encounter In-Reply-To: <571243.33915.qm@web53905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20071222010712.CED8B10C4EDC@mini.thinbits.net> <571243.33915.qm@web53905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44108.196.8.104.31.1198481813.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> > About 3 years ago (real time) I had a metal meteorite > strike near enough to my adventuring heroes that they > could have easily found it. Their reaction? "Hmm, if > there's no encounter, I'm going back to sleep." The > next day they meandered off on their way back to > civilization. > > *Sigh* The broos, trolls, and two human clans that > also saw it, and who all approached, had a really > interesting (off camera) encounter. > > Steve > > O well, suppose you can't win them all:) You could always "punish" them bu having the people who did visit the site have superior weapons and do extra damage etc against the party in later encounters. From vikingjarl at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 21:17:53 2007 From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:17:53 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <38848.196.8.104.31.1198481649.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> <476C5CED.2040706@gmail.com> <38848.196.8.104.31.1198481649.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <476F8751.8020207@gmail.com> Or you could go with the original legend that SvartalfR (Dark-elves aka dwarves in the old Germanic Lore) were descended from worms/maggots (depending on how you translate it.) Skol Sven postmaster at runequest.za.org wrote: > Sven wrote: > >> Spot on my friend, you get the picture precisely! Steel was increasingly >> available, in widely varying quality, but not common until later periods >> even in the very late Bronze Age to bronze poor areas (heck probably >> even as a nice rock for an club in the neolithic). This is a great thing >> for the Roleplayer as it provides a logical progression of blade >> qualities (see my original post) from common to Runic. I feel, as to >> other archaeologists, that the famous blades (Excalibur, Tyrfing, >> Joyeuse, Curtana, etc), usually attributed to the Smith-God >> Weyland/Volund, were in fact early period weapons that came from a smith >> or family of smiths who happened across a large find of meteoritic >> nickel-iron steel. Because of the innate quality of the blend they >> would, as legend tells us, cut through ordinary weapons without dulling. >> Probably a matter of a better than average smith with a superior supply >> of raw material. Imagine gaming a quest for some "Star Stones" to make a >> Runic weapon. >> > > > Another interesting off spin could be the star steel has some sort of > radioactive or mutative properties. Could explain why the smith Ragin > ended up becoming a dwarf and or was considered a bit hideous by the time > he made Sigifriths sword. > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071224/bef3412d/attachment.html From ulo at metrocast.net Tue Dec 25 16:50:10 2007 From: ulo at metrocast.net (Christopher Fasulo) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:50:10 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] RQ3 Character gen. by k soft Message-ID: <001901c846ba$03373430$98e9af41@yourb27fb1c401> Anyone able to share a copy? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20071225/19bed6ca/attachment.html From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Wed Dec 26 15:51:19 2007 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:51:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] RuneQuest 1st and 2nd edition Review Message-ID: <381610.50891.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From RPG.net by moi: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13534.phtml RuneQuest was once considered the great challenge to the almighty AD&D. Critically acclaimed, at least according to reviews here on RPG.net, and another. By accident it was the first RPG I participated in, which was followed up with D&D, AD&D, Swordbearer, DragonQuest, Rolemaster, GURPS, the Hero System and dozens and dozens of other games. Even today however, I'm still playing in a RQ 2nd edition game and for the past two years at RetroCon I've run RQ2 games. You may think I like it or something; you might be right. Recently I was also fortunate enough to acquire, after many years, a copy of first edition RuneQuest. As is often remarked, it is very similiar to the second edition and therefore the two can be reviewed simultaneously. Let's begin by defining the products. The game discussed here is the softback editions of RuneQuest (1st and 2nd edition) published by (The) Chaosium, with emphasis on the second edition which is much more well known and subject to significantly more actual play. There is another version second edition published by Games Workshop with a similiar piece of cover art (in colour, although with a silly 'chaimail bikini' outfit), another rare and very sturdy hardback edition published by Reston Publishing which is as rare as rocking horse manure, and a third edition published by Avalon Hill and written by Chaosium which I have previously reviewed (and ended up giving it roughly the same rating as everyone else who has reviewed it). There is also an oddity called RuneQuest: Slayers which apparently is quite good, but has very little to do with with the game reviewed here. There is also the recent edition known as Mongoose RuneQuest;, which has received a less glorious response, but is still a reasonably good game it its own right. Hidden in the deep underground of PDF distribution there's also an unpublished manuscript of what was to be RuneQuest IV: Adventures in Glorantha. The softback edition of RQ II usually comes with monochrome art of various colours. The first edition and many of the second editions come in a light brown cover although some are colour; the second edition has somewhat more detail and a different date). There are also two-tone colour versions about and of course, the hardback version comes with colour dust jacket. The image however is the same, an armoured female confronting a DragonNewt (a humanoid draconic being), placing her shield in the way. A rather witty comment from an Ares/SPI review on its release was "a giant gila monster eating a tortilla". The same style of art, by Luise Perrin (who has a something to do with the author of the game of the same surname), is continued throughout. It's neither brilliant in technqiue or inspiration, but it's good enough and certainly compared well to many products of its time. The maps of the default setting Glorantha and the regions of Sartar and Prax are very evocative of a mythic world however this only applies for the second edition; the first edition maps leave a lot to be desired. In the second edition, two coloum justified text is used throughout with a good-sized serif font and a good use of white space, making it very readable, although in the appendicies the font - and readability - is reduced significantly. In the first edition, a sans-serif font, poor use of white space, and typed rather than typeset material is used for tables and the character sheets. In terms of layout, the first edition is not particularly attractive by any stretch of the imagination. The binding is quite strong in the second edition with harsh treatment over decades still resulting in workable copies (a positive note here must also be made of the hardback edition), although the same certainly cannot be said for the first edition which is 118pp with a light cardstock cover with two staples - handle with extreme care! The organisation of the text includes five pages of useful introduction, six pages on character creation (eight pages in first edition), five pages of "mechanics and melee", twelve pages of "combat skills" (ten pages), thirteen pages of "basic magic", nine pages of "other skills" (ten pages), twenty pages of "rune magic" (eighteen pages), nineteen pages of "monsters" (twenty-five pages), six pages of "treasure hoards" (called "Monster Hoards" in the first edition), and twenty-two pages of appendicies (thirteen pages, entitled "Referees Notes). There is a good index (lacking in the first edition) and table of contents, along with eight pages in the middle of the book for the most important tables for in-play activity. The organisation of the text could certainly have done with some better consideration. The tables in the middle of the book are more a bane than a benefit, and some of the best material which should have been included in the main text is in the the Appendicies. Chapters II to VI could largely have been reordered as II, VI, III, IV and then VII (Rune magic); character advancement could have been better placed (i.e., not after combat skills). On the other hand, the writing style is very commendable; concise, evocative and clear. From the very outset one has a clear idea of the recommended setting and the justifications for game decisions. The game is about questing for runes. Different metals are aligned to different runes. Bronze is the bones of dead Gods. Silver is the basic unit of currency and gold is very rare. It is a bronze age and early Dark Ages world with more in common with ancient Mesopotamia and Hyborea than medieval Europe.People have allegiances to cities, nations, religions and tribes, not to abstract qualities of law and chaos or even good and evil. A high POW characteristic weakens your ability to hide, because it builds an aura; and so forth. Throughout the text one learns from the experiences of Rurik The Restless, clever and resilient, but always tripping over himself from his first drink at Gimpy's Tavern (at the tender age of 16) to becoming a Runelord of the Sun Dome Temple. Character generation starts with a familiar 3d6 for Strength, Constitution, Size, Intelligence, Power, Dexterity and Charisma with alternative methods of characteristic generation are provided, including a point-buy system. The most exotic is Power, representing the measure of soul and is requisite for casting spells. Maximum characteristics is based on the maximum roll-able amount plus the number of dice; so the highest DEX a human could have would be 21 - 18 + 3 dice, with the exception of STR, SIZ or CON which is limited to whatever the highest of those three are - and further, SIZ cannot be normally altered (there is no dieting in the RuneQuest world). POW is improved by the experience of casting magic, whilst CHA can be increased by high weapon skills (!), oratory, possession of showy items, and reputation. Characteristic modify abilities, which groups of skills, knowledges and so forth broken up into Attack, Parry, Defense, Hit Points, Damage Bonus, Perception, Stealth, Manipulation and Knowledge. The significant influence of INT in attack, defense, manipulation and stealth should raise an eyebrow, as will Hit Points, which are based on CON but modified (slightly) by SIZ and (even less) POW. The effect of this becomes quite notable in the "Monster" chapter; because most creatures have a CON of the 3-18 range, something as mighty as a (Dream) Dragon merely has an average 19 hit points, despite having an average SIZ of 50. Starting equipment is based on randomly determined character class background; either Peasant, Townsman, Barbarian, Poor Noble or Rich Noble. The third chapter, "Mechanics & Melee" deal with time and movement, Encumbrance, the Melee Round sequence, hit locations and wounds. An perhaps overlooked element is the recommended game-world to real-world time scale; one real day equating with one game week. In other words, RuneQuest was explicitly designed from the start for saga-like play. A campaign spread over two years or so, would cover roughly fifteen years of an adventurer's life, assuming they survived. The rest of the movement rules are basically realist-simulationist, but with the unfortunate oddity that all beings of the same species have the same base movement. The Encumbrance system is simple and workable; character's are limited by "things" of bulk and weight, limited by STR and CON. A nice addition was "The Adventurer's Pack"; an easy game convention of basics. The Melee Round is broken into phases; (a) Statement of Intent (b) Movement of Non-Engaged (3) Melee, Missiles and Spells (4) Bookkeeping. "Initiative" is determined by "Strike Rank". In a nutshell, a tall, fast character with a spear will strike before a short, slow character with a dagger. The quantity of POW points used in a spell also determines the spell's SR. The higher a character's SR, the latter they strike in the round, which does mean absolute minimums (SIZ 22+, DEX 19+, Weapon Length 2+ metres) and thus a limit on scalability. With regards to wounds, characters have general and locational (head, arms, chest, abdomen, legs) hit points. Damage that exceeds locations will effectively disable the location; a minor problem with the arm, a more serious one with the leg, and very dangerous if it's the head. Damage that exceed a limb's location by more than 6 points is "severed or irrevocably maimed", which means instant death for the head, chest and abdomen. Note again, the absolute value which does not scale well. The chapter on combat skills outlines the basic percentile attack, and the parry used to defend such oncoming blows. There are special hits (1/5 of base chance) with impaling weapons can do savage damage, which are rather oddly applied before armour and criticals (1/20 of base chance) which ignore armour. There are also comically dangerous effects of fumbles and critical parries and parry fumbles. A successful parry against a successful attack means the defender's weapon takes damage, and a successful parry against a failed attack means the attacker's weapon takes damage. Rather strangely, skill advancement is discussed at this point referring to both training by guilds and the expenditure of hard-earned coin (modified by CHA), or by experience which requires a successful roll underneath 100 minus the current skill (modified by INT). After this is various melee and missile weapons tables, with some slight differences between 1st and 2nd edition. A newcomer to the game can quickly estimate the deadliness of RuneQuest and especially the necessity of armour, which immediately follows with values from 1 (leather, padding, cloth, quilt) to 6 (plate) according to location and shields (small, medium and large). One can make an argument that armour is ever-so slightly underpowered. In both editions the base chance of parrying for shields is missing, a rather annoying oversight corrected by an errata sheet. The fifth chapter is Basic Magic, which consists of "Battle Magic" and "Spirit Contacts". In RuneQuest most sentient being have at least one or two spells to help them through the day. These are powered by their spiritual Power and are taught by religious cults who will provide credit to loyal members to provide knowledge in such matters. Character's are limited to the number of spells in POW according to their INT. Battle Magic spells usually have a range of between 40 and 80 metres, a focus (a carved rune on some implement, or even tatoo), and are either instant or temporal (ten mellee rounds), although the effects of attack spells obviously are permanent. Some spells have more powerful versions of a basic type (e.g., Bladesharp 1, Bladesharp 2 etc) whereas others do not (e.g., Silence). Spell resolution requires a roll of the caster's temporary POW at the time of casting referenced against the target's POW on a resistance table (it is worth noting here that the distinction between temporary and permanent POW was often not as clear as it could be). An equation equivalent is ((Attacking POW - Defending POW)*5)+50)%. Assuming sufficient stress (less than 95% chance of success), successful casting spells against opponents allows a "POW gain roll" like an experience check. POW, representing the character's emotional state and spiritual confidence, is one of the most fluid characteristics in the game. The fifty plus spells themselves are quite simple and to the point, although one can be a little annoyed at the small run of Detect 'X' spells. In contrast to Battle Magic, Spirit Contacts requires perceiving usually indifferent partial beings of INT and POW only and challenging said beings to spirit combat. It is simply a POW vs POW contest like spell-casting with damage of 1-3 points of temporary POW and the possibility of possession (for the spirit) or binding (for the attacker). With a bound spirit (trapped in either a crystal or an animal familiar) the character may use the spirit's INT to store spells and its POW to fuel spells. A character may only bind a number of Spirits equal to their CHA/3 if they want to avoid "rebellious spirits". A particularly expert individual at Spirit Contacts may wish to become a shaman, which includes a fetch, a special spiritual ally, the capacity to store POW in the spirit world itself, the ability to cure disease, the ability to raise oneself from the dead with sufficient healing magics and additional spiritual controls. In a fairly significant difference, shaman do not make an appearance in the first edition. The sixth chapter is entitled "Other Skills" which is what moves the game away from being just "swords and sorcery" to other lifestyles. This is broken up into the various guilds that provide the training for the differing skills and skill groups (stealth, manipulation, perception and knowledge) which are almost invariably learnt as percentile values, with basic values, skill modifiers and training costs for the 0-25%/26-50%/51-75%/75-100% ratings. A notable exception to this is the Alchemists Guild who provide training in the skills of Acid Making, Antidotes, Blade Venom, Systematic Poison and Magic Potions (Healing, POW restoration and, in first edition, "Skill Raisiing"!) which are in ratings of potency (POT) which, if applicable, are rated against a character's CON, for example, causing either full or half effect whether they resist in the same manner as spell casting. Other Guilds include the Free Sages, who teaching Evaluate Treasure, Map Making, Oratory, Languages, and Writing; Thieve's Guilds which teach a variety of manipulation, perception and steal skills; Players and Minsterels; the Maritime Brotherhood (only swimming listed); Foresters; Amorers; Horsemasters etc. On gets the general feeling, and indeed this would confirmed by subsequent publications, that the skill selection was only a hint of what was possible. In the seventh chapter the game moves into an entirely different scale: Rune Magic. Runes are described as symbols that hold inherent power. They are differentiated into the Elements (what the world is mad of), the Forms (how an Elemental or Power force is expressed), the Powers (opposite-pairs) and Conditions (levels). The Elements are Darkness, Water, Earth, Air, Fire, and Moon; the Forms are Plant, Beast, Man, Dragonewt, Spirit, Chaos; the Powers arer Harmony-Disorder, Fertility-Death; Stasis-Movement; Truth-Illusion and Luck-Fate. The Conditions are Magic, Mastery and Infinity. The runes themselves have a nice symbolic aesthetic and are often delightful in their metaphor. The Plant rune is clearly derived from the Aztecs for the same, the cross represents Death in the form of the first sword, Harmony appears ias a harp and Chaos has a pair of devil horns so on. Characters may start off as Initiates of a Cult which provides them one-off access to Rune magics which require a permanent sacrifice of POW (seriously cool) and possibly Divine Intervention from their God. Note that Initiate status was not available in first edition. The real prestige level is becoming a Rune Lord, Rune Priest or even both! With a requisite benchmarks for acceptance, these levels provide one with teh capacity to extend skills beyond 100%, receive allied spirits, use iron weapons, have better Divine Intervention and better (read, often reusable) access to Rune magics. Rune magics are faster, require no loss in temporary POW (that's already been paid for), have a longer range (160m), can be "stacked" and are generally twice as powerful in all respects to Battle Magic. About 25 Rune magic spells are described, including the summoning and dismissing of Elementals. Three sample cults (Orlanth, the Storm God; Kyger Litor, the Troll God; and the Black Fang Brotherhood, an assasins cult) round out the chapter. The eigth and ninth chapters are monsters and treasures respectively, where it is noted that intelligent humanoids can be player characters. All "monsters" are provided a full set of characteristics, common skills, spells, and weapon abilities. Descriptions tend strongly toward combat abilities and tactics, with often only merely a sentence or two describing their ecological niche or social organisation. Some of the more exotic creatures include intelligent Baboons; the philosophical and reincarnating Dragonwets; the goat-headed, chaotic and disease ridden humanoids, Broos; the various "Beast Men", like Centaus, Minatours and Manticores; the intelligent man-herding tapirs, Morokanth; the cursed Trolls (and their dimunitive progeny, the Trollkin). Mention must also be made of the intelligent, humanoid Ducks and Dream Dragons - that is, the physical manifestation of the dreams of real dragons. Another group which receives some attention are the various riding animals of Prax and to a lesser extent, Dragon Pass. In the first edition, the various Diseases are listed in the Monster's chapter ("perhaps the deadliest monster in Glorontha"), whereas in the second edition they are listed in the Appendicies A calculation of various combative abilities leads to each monster having a "Treasure Factor", which usually consist of various amounts of coin (a few hundred silver coins is typical), the occassional item of jewellarly or gems and even more rearely, a special item (scroll,potion, battle spell matrix, magic crystals). A spell matrix simply allows a character access to a spell fueled by their own POW. Magic crystals however, are the congealed blood of dead Gods; industructible they can be used to hold bound spirits or store Power. The final chapter in both editions are referees notes (first edition title) and appendicies (second edition). Alternative character generation systems are provided, along with characteristic rolls, previous experience (an additional five years added to character generation in militia, mercenary groups or even a apprenticeship). One particular oddity is the suggestion of the Alchemy guild's training an apprentice to certain percentages of their skills; when it has already been noted that the Alchemy skills do not follow the standard percentage system. Also included in this section are rune identites, regional encounter tables, various weapon descriptions, optional combat rules, such as aimed blows, and in second edition, knockbacks, shield attacks, 'slashing' and 'crushing' (to balance with impales) and the random chaotic features table, which can often amuse and terrify. It is easy to see why RuneQuest II was very highly regarded by gamers when it was released and why it still has many supporters today and is largely considered a classic in the field. The game system placed great emphasis on "playable realism", flexibility and a high degree of intuitive consistency. The magic system, both the basic and runic variety, was highly evocative. The combat system, despite being very "crunchy" was quick and deadly in practise. The ties to the exotic and magic gameworld of Glorantha (or Glorontha in the first edition) were moderate but provided a great campaign base - indeed there was a not-significant split between those who wanted to play in Glorantha and those who wanted to play with RuneQuest. The game however, was not without its flaws. Apart from those already mentioned in this review, most notable is the downside of the flexibility and lack of character classes; character generation could be quite time-consuming. The financial system sometimes came across quite poorly; costs of various forms of training (especially the Alchemist's Guild) was quite disproportionate. Also notable, is with the exceptions of criticals and impales, it was not really a true percentage system, but rather effectively a d20 system with 5-percent increments. Overall however, RuneQuest 1st and 2nd editions are good products which set a high standard for game design. Thus, with each factor with a possible score of 0-1 (and my additions of 'product' for style and 'system' for substance) and noting that this is primarily a review of RQ II for the overall rating. RuneQuest I Style: layout (0.1), art (0.4), coolness (0.8), readability (0.5), product (0.1) = 1 + 1.9 = 2.9 Substance: content (0.5), text (0.8), fun (0.6), workmanship (0.8), system (0.6) = 1 + 3.3 = 4.3 RuneQuest II Style: layout (0.4), art (0.4), coolness (0.8), readability (0.7), product (0.5) = 1 + 2.8 = 3.8 Substance: content (0.6), text (0.8), fun (0.6), workmanship (0.8), system (0.7) = 1 + 3.5 = 4.5 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From postmaster at runequest.za.org Thu Dec 27 18:23:31 2007 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:23:31 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] [OT][General FRP]Riddle of Steel In-Reply-To: <476F8751.8020207@gmail.com> References: <4963.196.8.104.31.1198049103.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <4768CEC7.6020006@gmail.com> <47694A7A.4040803@gmail.com> <4769B5FD.3070207@gmail.com> <476C5CED.2040706@gmail.com> <38848.196.8.104.31.1198481649.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> <476F8751.8020207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47048.196.8.104.31.1198740211.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> > Or you could go with the original legend that SvartalfR (Dark-elves aka > dwarves in the old Germanic Lore) were descended from worms/maggots > (depending on how you translate it.) > Skol > Sven > Going to have to take a look at that legend, not familiar with it - although does have a ring of "Worms of the Earth" (Robert E Howard) who did get many ideas for his stuff on old legends etc.Tony