From lev at rpgreview.net  Wed Mar 20 00:22:15 2013
From: lev at rpgreview.net (lev at rpgreview.net)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:22:15 +1100
Subject: [Swordbearer] V&V reverts back to designers... Swordbearer too?
Message-ID: <0b60422206a3e4d75d213278bdc3c955.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>

Interesting news that ownership of V&V has reverted back to the designers.

I wonder if this applies to Swordbearer as well?

http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/3714/villains-vigilantes-creators-win-rights






From Hans_Zarkov at gmx.de  Wed Mar 20 22:06:14 2013
From: Hans_Zarkov at gmx.de (Kai Zimmermann)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 23:06:14 +0100
Subject: [Swordbearer] V&V reverts back to designers... Swordbearer too?
In-Reply-To: <0b60422206a3e4d75d213278bdc3c955.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
References: <0b60422206a3e4d75d213278bdc3c955.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <514A32D6.4090807@gmx.de>

Am 20.03.2013 01:22, schrieb lev at rpgreview.net:
> Interesting news that ownership of V&V has reverted back to the designers.
>
> I wonder if this applies to Swordbearer as well?
>
> http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/3714/villains-vigilantes-creators-win-rights

Yeah, I noticed.

I am really, really not a lawyer, but I think that -- assuming that the 
legal situation is the same, which at first glance it appears to be -- 
in order to get the rights to Swordbearer back, someone would have to 
make an active attempt.

Apart from that, I was doing a little mental dance of joy when I heard 
the V&V guys won their fight against FGU (or at least, this round of it; 
it's not necessarily over yet). I've been wishing the plague on, you 
know, that person at FGU ever since I bought that horrible piece of crap 
purporting to be a one-volume reprint of the old FGU Swordbearer edition.

I mean, I could do a better scan and pdf of the whole game in perhaps 20 
minutes without even trying hard, just using the public scanners at the 
library. A pdf without visible creases in the middle of the pages.
-- 
"It's those cursed rabbits!"
(Alfred Lord Tennyson)



From macmike at iprimus.com.au  Thu Mar 21 03:07:05 2013
From: macmike at iprimus.com.au (Michael Hill)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:07:05 +0800
Subject: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1363827605.409981.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
References: <mailman.3.1363827605.409981.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <D743ACCE-6DF9-4FD7-AB47-4A1D798A63C7@iprimus.com.au>

It would be great to see SB out in the world again. My copies are in pristine condition but I'd still buy more. 

Off topic (already) - anyone know what Goal Points were intended to be?

Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

On 21/03/2013, at 9:00 AM, swordbearer-request at rpgreview.net wrote:

> Send Swordbearer mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: V&V reverts back to designers... Swordbearer too?
>      (Kai Zimmermann)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 23:06:14 +0100
> From: Kai Zimmermann <Hans_Zarkov at gmx.de>
> To: Swordbearer Rules <swordbearer at rpgreview.net>
> Subject: Re: [Swordbearer] V&V reverts back to designers...
>    Swordbearer too?
> Message-ID: <514A32D6.4090807 at gmx.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> Am 20.03.2013 01:22, schrieb lev at rpgreview.net:
>> Interesting news that ownership of V&V has reverted back to the designers.
>> 
>> I wonder if this applies to Swordbearer as well?
>> 
>> http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/3714/villains-vigilantes-creators-win-rights
> 
> Yeah, I noticed.
> 
> I am really, really not a lawyer, but I think that -- assuming that the 
> legal situation is the same, which at first glance it appears to be -- 
> in order to get the rights to Swordbearer back, someone would have to 
> make an active attempt.
> 
> Apart from that, I was doing a little mental dance of joy when I heard 
> the V&V guys won their fight against FGU (or at least, this round of it; 
> it's not necessarily over yet). I've been wishing the plague on, you 
> know, that person at FGU ever since I bought that horrible piece of crap 
> purporting to be a one-volume reprint of the old FGU Swordbearer edition.
> 
> I mean, I could do a better scan and pdf of the whole game in perhaps 20 
> minutes without even trying hard, just using the public scanners at the 
> library. A pdf without visible creases in the middle of the pages.
> -- 
> "It's those cursed rabbits!"
> (Alfred Lord Tennyson)
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Swordbearer mailing list
> Swordbearer at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/swordbearer_rpgreview.net
> 
> 
> End of Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 2
> ******************************************



From lev at rpgreview.net  Fri Mar 22 05:54:30 2013
From: lev at rpgreview.net (lev at rpgreview.net)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:54:30 +1100
Subject: [Swordbearer] V&V reverts back to designers... Swordbearer too?
In-Reply-To: <514A32D6.4090807@gmx.de>
References: <0b60422206a3e4d75d213278bdc3c955.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
	<514A32D6.4090807@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <fb68f192b68cbed5a6ce9c991a5fcc31.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>

Hi Kai,

> I am really, really not a lawyer, but I think that -- assuming that the
> legal situation is the same, which at first glance it appears to be --
> in order to get the rights to Swordbearer back, someone would have to
> make an active attempt.

I'd like to do a third edition using the original name "Avatar" :)

> I mean, I could do a better scan and pdf of the whole game in perhaps 20
> minutes without even trying hard, just using the public scanners at the
> library. A pdf without visible creases in the middle of the pages.

I did an OCR scan of the original Heritage edition exported to RTF, "just
in case".

Best wishes, Lev




From bhoritz at gmail.com  Sat Mar 23 10:36:32 2013
From: bhoritz at gmail.com (Bhoritz Bollemans)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 11:36:32 +0100
Subject: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1364000404.588326.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
References: <mailman.1.1364000404.588326.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <CAPC2LWVz6hPubhbc8MvSte0+y3SViL=N_Xf1zkVRgW0cuaUtmQ@mail.gmail.com>

> I'd like to do a third edition using the original name "Avatar"
>

I have the Heritage edition and the FGU one, but I was not aware that there
was a third one. Or was it only a working title?
I would also like to see the publishing of a third edition. Or even a
retroclone if this was not possible. But I am not sure that Swordbearer was
popular enough or if there is enough interest to make it worthwile.

Patrick
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Sat Mar 23 14:29:33 2013
From: lev at rpgreview.net (lev at rpgreview.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 01:29:33 +1100
Subject: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAPC2LWVz6hPubhbc8MvSte0+y3SViL=N_Xf1zkVRgW0cuaUtmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1364000404.588326.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
	<CAPC2LWVz6hPubhbc8MvSte0+y3SViL=N_Xf1zkVRgW0cuaUtmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97ec7b6f24b147b85653e153e419056c.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>

> I have the Heritage edition and the FGU one, but I was not aware that
> there
> was a third one. Or was it only a working title?

It was the working title for the first edition.

> I would also like to see the publishing of a third edition. Or even a
> retroclone if this was not possible. But I am not sure that Swordbearer
> was
> popular enough or if there is enough interest to make it worthwile.

I wouldn't be expected any more than a few hundred sales at best.

There is a fair amount of cruft in Swordbearer which is a function of its
age. But as a whole, it's still one of the more remarkable gaming products
out there...

All the best, Lev




From atroxfang at sbcglobal.net  Sat Mar 23 20:07:50 2013
From: atroxfang at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Sustare)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:07:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <97ec7b6f24b147b85653e153e419056c.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
References: <mailman.1.1364000404.588326.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
	<CAPC2LWVz6hPubhbc8MvSte0+y3SViL=N_Xf1zkVRgW0cuaUtmQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<97ec7b6f24b147b85653e153e419056c.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <1364069270.57492.YahooMailRC@web181705.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I really wish they would have used the "Avatar" name. The response of Heritage 
was "Huh? Nobody will
know what that means." Of course if I had used it, perhaps now I would be 
getting royalties from all sorts
of social media sites, MMOs, and even James Cameron. Sigh...  --dennis


> I have the Heritage edition and the FGU one, but I was not aware that
> there
> was a third one. Or was it only a working title?

It was the working title for the first edition.

> I would also like to see the publishing of a third edition. Or even a
> retroclone if this was not possible. But I am not sure that Swordbearer
> was
> popular enough or if there is enough interest to make it worthwile.

I wouldn't be expected any more than a few hundred sales at best.

There is a fair amount of cruft in Swordbearer which is a function of its
age. But as a whole, it's still one of the more remarkable gaming products
out there...

All the best, Lev
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Sun Mar 24 09:57:26 2013
From: lev at rpgreview.net (lev at rpgreview.net)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:57:26 +1100
Subject: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <D743ACCE-6DF9-4FD7-AB47-4A1D798A63C7@iprimus.com.au>
References: <mailman.3.1363827605.409981.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
	<D743ACCE-6DF9-4FD7-AB47-4A1D798A63C7@iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <dfc7ee8fecfcc29f6eddd12a95abc69f.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>

> Off topic (already) - anyone know what Goal Points were intended to be?

Goal points? I don't recall those in Swordbearer?

All the best, Lev




From macmike at iprimus.com.au  Mon Mar 25 02:17:12 2013
From: macmike at iprimus.com.au (Michael Hill)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:17:12 +0800
Subject: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1364173217.668370.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
References: <mailman.5.1364173217.668370.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <CDB2DE34-036B-4B87-919E-32A086A27411@iprimus.com.au>

Goal Points, page 111 (Heritage), second column, last para.. "if the GM wishes to use the Goal Point system..."

The paragraph gives a clue but I can't find any other reference...

Thanks



On 25/03/2013, at 9:00 AM, swordbearer-request at rpgreview.net wrote:

> Send Swordbearer mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 2 (lev at rpgreview.net)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:57:26 +1100
> From: lev at rpgreview.net
> To: "Swordbearer Rules" <swordbearer at rpgreview.net>
> Subject: Re: [Swordbearer] Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 2
> Message-ID:
> 	<dfc7ee8fecfcc29f6eddd12a95abc69f.squirrel at webmail.rpgreview.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> 
>> Off topic (already) - anyone know what Goal Points were intended to be?
> 
> Goal points? I don't recall those in Swordbearer?
> 
> All the best, Lev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Swordbearer mailing list
> Swordbearer at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/swordbearer_rpgreview.net
> 
> 
> End of Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18, Issue 6
> ******************************************




From lev at rpgreview.net  Tue Mar 26 09:11:51 2013
From: lev at rpgreview.net (lev at rpgreview.net)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:11:51 +1100
Subject: [Swordbearer] Goal Points (was Re:  Swordbearer Digest, Vol 18,
 Issue 6)
In-Reply-To: <CDB2DE34-036B-4B87-919E-32A086A27411@iprimus.com.au>
References: <mailman.5.1364173217.668370.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
	<CDB2DE34-036B-4B87-919E-32A086A27411@iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <eb2f9a53e6341a46951de87fbc7d8bf3.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>

> Goal Points, page 111 (Heritage), second column, last para.. "if the GM
> wishes to use the Goal Point system..."
>
> The paragraph gives a clue but I can't find any other reference...

That would be because there isn't one :)

In the FGU edition of the game, the references to Goal Points were
expunged (c.f., Rule 15.4.2).

But of course, this does give the opportunity to discuss what Goal Points
*should* be!

Personally, I would like to see them as some sort of narrativist buy-in
for advancing a story.




From watti3460 at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 31 14:41:56 2013
From: watti3460 at yahoo.com (Scott McGinnis)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 07:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Swordbearer] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1364740916.39150.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web125202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


http://www.metaltradecom.com/www.abcnews.com.newbuyer.storyforme68.php



From rachel_kronick at jiawen.net  Sun Mar 31 17:37:23 2013
From: rachel_kronick at jiawen.net (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:37:23 -0500
Subject: [Swordbearer] Goal Points
In-Reply-To: <eb2f9a53e6341a46951de87fbc7d8bf3.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
References: <mailman.5.1364173217.668370.swordbearer_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
	<CDB2DE34-036B-4B87-919E-32A086A27411@iprimus.com.au>
	<eb2f9a53e6341a46951de87fbc7d8bf3.squirrel@webmail.rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <51587453.1090009@jiawen.net>

On 03/26/2013 04:11 AM, lev at rpgreview.net wrote:

> Personally, I would like to see them as some sort of narrativist buy-in
> for advancing a story.
>

That certainly sounds possible. It almost sounds, from the description, 
like players setting their own victory conditions in a wargame. Also, 
from the possibility that goals points might need to be created at 
character generation, they sound like they were long-term rather than 
session-based for characters. So "I will become Bishop of the Church of 
Arcthelion" rather than "I need to kill at least five orcs today". Maybe 
almost like an alignment system.

-- Rachel Kronick





