<div dir="ltr">I've regularly used the Skill Pyramid idea for speedily customising RQ characters at demo games and conventions, allowing the players some input into the chargen process with a pre-gen character: it helps show roughly how more detailed character creation works and gives them a bit more investment in the character itself. For 'normal' campaign games, I use the full-fat chargen mechanics simply because we always set aside time for character creation.<div>
<br></div><div>Where advantages/disadvantages are concerned, I really don't like them. They're great in Superhero games, and that's where they originated, and they will actually be used in our forthcoming Luther Arkwright setting for RQ6 - but that's because they fit the genre, and the characters appearing in the Arkwright comic tend to possess remarkable powers tempered by personality and physical flaws. Generally though, I steer clear of them. I don't feel they offer much to a game beyond mini-maxing, and unless you have some particularly diligent roleplayers, the flaws tend to get forgotten (conveniently or accidentally) while the advantages tend always to be remembered...</div>
<div><br></div><div>As ever, YRQWV...</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 November 2013 09:46, Bruce Mason <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mason.bruce@gmail.com" target="_blank">mason.bruce@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I suspect most of us have tested out points-based systems before for RQ/BRP. Ditto advantage/disadvantage. I've personally moved away from them because it feels like it pushes RQ against the grain. As well there are also all the usual issues around character optimisation and mini-maxing that leave me cold. Personally, I would use them in systems built around them rather than graft them on.<div>
<br></div><div>To me, SIZ is the thing that tends to break points-based system. At the low end SIZ is quite granular but STR is always going to be proportional to SIZ. in RQ a dark troll is pretty much the same as a human only bigger and stronger. Stronger as a side-effect of being bigger. This means that you either "build" them on more points or you have to add a whole bunch of mandatory disadvantages. In either case a troll then can easily afford to sacrifice to spend more points on INT & DEX but still end up with the same STR and SIZ as large, strong human. And if you can use the same points pool for characteristics as skills you get the issue magnified.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It's not so bad if you separate skill points and characteristic points but then it tends to become an exercise in spreadsheeting.</div><div><br></div><div>For what it's worth,my preferred points based system is actually rather different and scales with creature size. Note that (nearly) all RQ characteristics are in the form Xd6+Y and all sapient characters have 7 characteristics. So, what you get is a number of points (lets call it 24) to spend on characteristics. Each point you spend on a characteristic is the equivalent of rolling that number on all the d6s. Example</div>
<div>Human is STR 3d6. If you spend two points on STR then that is the equivalent of 3*2 for a STR of 6. If you spend 4 points on STR it is the equivalent of 3*4 = 12. Naturally the most you can spend on a characteristic is 6 points for a total of X*6.</div>
<div><br></div><div>This does mean that each character really only has 6 values for each characteristic. For a human STR they would be 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18. The beauty of this is that it immediately scales high values with the same number of points. So an imaginary Ogre Mage (STR 3D6+12, INT 3D6+6) etc still spends just 24 points. They get higher average stats than a human but that's the RQ way. And of course you can set the points total to reflect the "level" of the campaign.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It works quite neatly. Some people get cognitive dissonance "why does no human anywhere in the world have a STR of 13?" because they can't separate out game mechanics from simulation. If you really want to be fine-grained you could allow people to spend 1/2 point to roll 1d(x-1) and add it to the total where X is the number of dice rolled for that characteristic - e.g. a human could spend 4.5 points on STR to have a STR of 12+1d2. You could then even say that the most you can spend is 6.5 to enable characters to exceed the usual species maximum.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Bruce</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 November 2013 13:41, Peter Maranci <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pmaranci@gmail.com" target="_blank">pmaranci@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Thanks Bruce, I didn't know about RQ6/Legend's smaller skill lists and higher base; I've added appropriate caveats to the version I'll eventually post on my RQ site.<br>
<br></div>At the risk of being told I'm an idiot, let me veer into a more speculative realm. <br>
<br>Building on the skill pyramid character design system, in
the past I've experimented a little with folding this system in with a
characteristic point-buying system. In that system, PCs start with all
characteristics at species average, and can sell or buy characteristic
points using the same build points that they'd spend on skills (the
total number of points being increased, of course!). In that case
characteristics were tiered in value, with Dexterity and Intelligence
the most expensive and Size the cheapest since both high and low SIZ
have benefits and drawbacks.<br><div style="max-height:none"><div><br>Each additional point of
characteristic would cost as much as the previous point, plus the cost
of the initial added point. So Dexterity would cost 10 points for the
first point, 20 for the second, 30 for the third, 40 for the fourth,
etc. Each point would have to be paid for, so assuming that DEX started
at 11 (rounding the species average upward) a DEX of 18 would cost 280
skill points. Since Intelligence starts two points higher (due to the
higher species average - 2D6+6 rather than 3D6) an Intelligence of 18
costs 150 points.<br><br>Power costs 8 skill points for the first point,
Strength 7, Constitution 5, Appearance 3, and Size 1. All increase in
cost the same way for additional points.<br><br>All point buys in a
specific characteristic must be made and paid for at once. You cannot
buy a point of a characteristic at a time to get it more cheaply. Of course no characteristic
can be bought above the normal rolled maximum without special
dispensation from the gamemaster.<br><br>Characteristic points can be
sold in the same way, yielding skill points. So if three points of
Intelligence are sold, the PC gains (10+20+30) 60 skill points. Again,
no characteristic may be sold down below minimum value without the GM's
approval, and any reduction of more than two points would likewise
require a sign-off by the GM.<br><br>Using this system, it would cost a
human 1,368 points to have an 18 in every characteristic. I'm still
pondering the total number of points that would be appropriate for a
combined skill-and-characteristic system.<br><br>I also noticed with
interest long ago that the GURPS system of advantages and disadvantages
could be incorporated very nicely into RuneQuest - and what's more, it
could easily be made to fit in with the point-buying system!</div></div><br></div><div>->Peter<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Bruce Mason <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mason.bruce@gmail.com" target="_blank">mason.bruce@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I have used versions of this though not quite as generous. That said, I've used it mostly for the RQ6/Legend branch which has much smaller skill lists and a reasonably high base chance. <div>
1*60, 2*50, 3*40 and 4*30 is the basic pyramid I use (400 skill points) then either 5*20 (and you can add to pre-existing skills) or 2*50 to two new skills.</div>
<div>Finally everyone gets +40 to own language, lore (homeland), culture (homeland). These do stack with any other additions.</div><div><br></div><div>Bruce</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><div>
On 17 November 2013 20:33, Peter Maranci <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pmaranci@gmail.com" target="_blank">pmaranci@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div>
<p dir="ltr">For many years now I've used a quick-and dirty method of skill generation for RuneQuest, and I thought it might be worth posting here. I hope I didn't post it before!</p>
<p dir="ltr">Call it a skill pyramid. After the players have generated their characteristics and determined their skill category bonuses, they have the following points that they can distribute into their skills:</p>
<p dir="ltr">70 x 1<br>
60 x 2<br>
50 x 3<br>
40 x 4<br>
30 x 5<br>
20 x 6<br>
10 x 7</p>
<p dir="ltr">So they can add 70% to one skill, adding that to the base (or cultural) percentage and their category modifier. They can add 60% to two other skills, using the same method. Etc, etc.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Of course attacks and parries are separate skills. If a character is using a specialization which is skill-intensive, such as RQIII Sorcery, I'll allow them additional skill percentages as needed to maintain reasonable balance.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Although they're not normally allowed to add to a skill more than once - for example they can't add up all seven 10% additions and give themselves a second +70 - I do sometimes allow them to add leftover 10s or 20s to a skill that has already had an add. But NO skill can have more than a total 70% add, and I'd be very unlikely to allow any additional add that increases the total addition to more than 50%.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Of course, for a higher-level campaign I'd increase the top skill level. And I'd decrease it for a low-level one.</p>
<p dir="ltr">So has anyone else used this method? Or something like it?</p>
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