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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">In the movie Bridge on the River Kwai,
      the WIlliam Holden character is going to jump into the area of the
      Bridge with some commandos. He is told that they aren't going to
      give him any practice jumps because there's as good a chance of
      dying on your first jump as your 100th. No idea how authentic this
      is.<br>
      <br>
      Steve Perrin<br>
      <br>
      On 5/5/2013 8:15 PM, Daniel wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:1367810123.76572.YahooMailClassic@web160406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
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            <td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">You might get some
              answers as well from <br>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/">http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/</a> <br>
              There is at least one game going on from some members of
              that group. <br>
              Daniel<br>
              <br>
              --- On <b>Sun, 5/5/13, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net">runequest-request@rpgreview.net</a> <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net"><runequest-request@rpgreview.net></a></i></b>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
                255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>
                From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net">runequest-request@rpgreview.net</a>
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net"><runequest-request@rpgreview.net></a><br>
                Subject: Runequest Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4<br>
                To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:runequest@rpgreview.net">runequest@rpgreview.net</a><br>
                Date: Sunday, May 5, 2013, 7:00 PM<br>
                <br>
                <div class="plainMail">Send Runequest mailing list
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                  You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
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                  <br>
                  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
                  more specific<br>
                  than "Re: Contents of Runequest digest..."<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  Today's Topics:<br>
                  <br>
                     1. Re: Fact check (Peter Maranci)<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Message: 1<br>
                  Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 20:14:24 -0400<br>
                  From: Peter Maranci <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    ymailto="mailto:pmaranci@gmail.com"
                    href="/mc/compose?to=pmaranci@gmail.com">pmaranci@gmail.com</a>><br>
                  To: RuneQuest Rules <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    ymailto="mailto:runequest@rpgreview.net"
                    href="/mc/compose?to=runequest@rpgreview.net">runequest@rpgreview.net</a>><br>
                  Subject: Re: [Runequest] Fact check<br>
                  Message-ID:<br>
                      <CAHk=<a moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:cBAfyuQSBMsF4W4kdOnZrfTWh_yO7mMYH5dWsF9o8wfK4g@mail.gmail.com"
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                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
                  <br>
                  Sorry to bring this up, but the issue is escalating
                  and I could use some<br>
                  insight from people who've actually parachuted. In the
                  last session the<br>
                  great troll had a couple of extra-large parachutes
                  made, by a talented<br>
                  tailor who had never been introduced to the concepts
                  of parachutes before<br>
                  (he's from a universe in which there is considerably
                  less gravity than<br>
                  most).<br>
                  <br>
                  The troll has never seen a parachute landing. His sole
                  exposure to anyone<br>
                  who HAD was a few seconds of grabbing a parachute off
                  a WWII plane that was<br>
                  under fire, and then a few seconds of combat while he
                  killed the<br>
                  paratrooper who was fighting to keep his parachute.<br>
                  <br>
                  Here's the question: how hard it is to make your first
                  parachute jump with<br>
                  absolutely no training or experience? What would be
                  some likely outcomes?<br>
                  <br>
                  In this case, it wasn't a 500-mile jump to the
                  Ringworld (that may happen<br>
                  after the troll gets out of traction). It was a fall
                  of about 800 feet, in<br>
                  which a secondary parachute opened at about 100 feet
                  up. He was wearing<br>
                  full plate mail and carrying a greatsword and troll
                  maul. According to my<br>
                  reckoning, both of his legs are not only broken, but
                  are effectively maimed<br>
                  - although luckily for him, he's in the best hospital
                  in a high-magic<br>
                  world. Does anyone think that that's unreasonable?
                  Because I suspect that<br>
                  I'm going to get a lot of arguments on this one.<br>
                  <br>
                  Also, do you think that his leg armor would survive
                  the fall?<br>
                  <br>
                  ->Peter<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Styopa <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    ymailto="mailto:styopa1@gmail.com"
                    href="/mc/compose?to=styopa1@gmail.com">styopa1@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <br>
                  > All credit to Niven.  He's an intelligent fellow,
                  and it's not casting any<br>
                  > aspersions on him to simply say that the math
                  behind a ringworld is<br>
                  > extraordinarily complex, a nearly-unique frame of
                  reference, and one could<br>
                  > spend - especially in 1970, when Babbage's
                  Children were barely toddlers -<br>
                  > much of one's life down the rabbit-hole of
                  computations trying to "get it<br>
                  > right".  Personally, I'm much happier that Mr.
                  Niven DIDN'T do so, and<br>
                  > instead actually wrote the book, physics-warts
                  and all.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Frankly it's a fun exercise, and has provided
                  some entertaining<br>
                  > discussions between myself, and people who know
                  more about physics than me<br>
                  > - actual rocket scientists, some of them.  One
                  (probably more usefully)<br>
                  > spends most of his day working with the physics
                  of golf balls.  (Well, I<br>
                  > often do as well, but not to the MATHEMATICS of
                  them.  Mine is a<br>
                  > more....experimental...approach, using lots of
                  profanity.)<br>
                  ><br>
                  > The fact is that (unless for some reason my posts
                  didn't make it to these<br>
                  > lists) I've proven with reasonable accuracy that
                  our Armored Troll would<br>
                  > fall the 500 miles in 406-some seconds (in a
                  vacuum), and would hit at<br>
                  > 000's of miles per hour.  Certainly, he'd hit
                  terminal velocity before<br>
                  > that, but he would MOST CERTAINLY impact with a
                  most-terminal of velocities<br>
                  > - probably several hundred miles per hour.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Oh, and re the 'atmosphere' and 'spill walls' -
                  yes, the point observed is<br>
                  > accurate.  The height of the walls DIRECTLY
                  impacts the atmospheric<br>
                  > densities on the surface of the ring.  Assuming
                  as physics-shorthand that<br>
                  > the 1g force in the revolving frame of reference
                  is uniform, the<br>
                  ><br>
                  > I'm NOT an atmospheric scientist, nor do I know
                  any.  I'd speculate<br>
                  > however that:<br>
                  > - in this very odd frame of reference, I couldn't
                  find any data on the<br>
                  > surface cross section of liquids, but I *suspect*
                  that it would be a<br>
                  > shallow parabola, possibly a hyperbola.  But for
                  this I'm just going to<br>
                  > assume it's uniform in effect at the surface,
                  because in any case I suspect<br>
                  > a varying pressure effect laterally would anyway
                  be homogenized by the air<br>
                  > shifting around anyway.  For this model, assume
                  the cross-section of the<br>
                  > atmosphere height is horizontal (to someone on
                  the ring-surface).<br>
                  > - ANYWAY, I checked against atmospheric height
                  and surface pressure for<br>
                  > Venus, Mars, and Earth... just to see.  It turns
                  out there's a fairly<br>
                  > straight log-function that describes the
                  relationship.  For Mars (atmos<br>
                  > height ~25km) = surface pressure is 600 pascals. 
                  Earth (~100km)<br>
                  > 101kilopascals. Venus (~250km) 9 megapascals. 
                  Assuming that the<br>
                  > atmospheric behavior is the same when
                  extrapolated linearly, a 500km-high<br>
                  > side wall means probably 100 megapascals....or
                  the pressure of water at<br>
                  > 10000m depth (yes, 10km).<br>
                  > The point of this atmospheric diversion?<br>
                  > To illustrate only that the 500mile spillwalls
                  DON'T necessarily mean it's<br>
                  > atmosphere 'all the way up'.  In fact, given the
                  quality of the Ringworld<br>
                  > Engineers, it would make sense that they would
                  OVER engineer the spillwalls<br>
                  > to defend against pretty much anything that would
                  'cost' the structure<br>
                  > airloss, if they could, so 500 mile sidewalls
                  (800km) still still might<br>
                  > only mean 100km atmosphere height.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Simple enough...except for our trollish friend.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Because this means that at least 7/8ths of his
                  'fall' from the edge (from<br>
                  > the PoV of the surface), or of his fling-sideways
                  (from the PoV of an<br>
                  > outsider watching), is in vacuum....meaning he's
                  going to 'hit' atmosphere<br>
                  > at 000's of mph, relative.<br>
                  ><br>
                  > Taking into account the atmosphere, then,
                  suggests that he would fall most<br>
                  > of the way without atmospheric hindrance, until
                  he hits atmosphere at<br>
                  > something like Mach 7, and really doesn't enjoy
                  the next few moments.<br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Sven Lugar <<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    ymailto="mailto:vikingjarl@gmail.com"
                    href="/mc/compose?to=vikingjarl@gmail.com">vikingjarl@gmail.com</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                  ><br>
                  >>  Ringworld is based on Larry Niven's book of
                  the same name. I came to<br>
                  >> know him fairly well back in the days when we
                  both going to Cons & to<br>
                  >> English Regency Dancing events. He always
                  struck me as very stringent in<br>
                  >> using his science in books. I remember an
                  occasion of him discussing the<br>
                  >> physics of it & also mentioning that it
                  was based on the work of Dyson (of<br>
                  >> the "Dyson Sphere concept"). So I suspect
                  that he is probably correct in<br>
                  >> his assumptions to make the concept work.
                  Perhaps someone who is more<br>
                  >> versed in these things can shed some light on
                  this.<br>
                  >><br>
                  >> Sven<br>
                  >><br>
                  >><br>
                  >><br>
                  > _______________________________________________<br>
                  > Runequest mailing list<br>
                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                  > <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                    target="_blank">http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net</a><br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  -- <br>
                  Peter Maranci - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    ymailto="mailto:pmaranci@gmail.com"
                    href="/mc/compose?to=pmaranci@gmail.com">pmaranci@gmail.com</a><br>
                  Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm"
                    target="_blank">http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm</a><br>
                  The Diary of A Simple Man: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/"
                    target="_blank">http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/</a><br>
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                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  Subject: Digest Footer<br>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
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                  <br>
                  <br>
                  ------------------------------<br>
                  <br>
                  End of Runequest Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4<br>
                  ****************************************<br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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