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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In the movie Bridge on the River Kwai,
the WIlliam Holden character is going to jump into the area of the
Bridge with some commandos. He is told that they aren't going to
give him any practice jumps because there's as good a chance of
dying on your first jump as your 100th. No idea how authentic this
is.<br>
<br>
Steve Perrin<br>
<br>
On 5/5/2013 8:15 PM, Daniel wrote:<br>
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<td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">You might get some
answers as well from <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/">http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/</a> <br>
There is at least one game going on from some members of
that group. <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Sun, 5/5/13, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net">runequest-request@rpgreview.net</a> <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net"><runequest-request@rpgreview.net></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net">runequest-request@rpgreview.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:runequest-request@rpgreview.net"><runequest-request@rpgreview.net></a><br>
Subject: Runequest Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:runequest@rpgreview.net">runequest@rpgreview.net</a><br>
Date: Sunday, May 5, 2013, 7:00 PM<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Fact check (Peter Maranci)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 20:14:24 -0400<br>
From: Peter Maranci <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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To: RuneQuest Rules <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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Subject: Re: [Runequest] Fact check<br>
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<br>
Sorry to bring this up, but the issue is escalating
and I could use some<br>
insight from people who've actually parachuted. In the
last session the<br>
great troll had a couple of extra-large parachutes
made, by a talented<br>
tailor who had never been introduced to the concepts
of parachutes before<br>
(he's from a universe in which there is considerably
less gravity than<br>
most).<br>
<br>
The troll has never seen a parachute landing. His sole
exposure to anyone<br>
who HAD was a few seconds of grabbing a parachute off
a WWII plane that was<br>
under fire, and then a few seconds of combat while he
killed the<br>
paratrooper who was fighting to keep his parachute.<br>
<br>
Here's the question: how hard it is to make your first
parachute jump with<br>
absolutely no training or experience? What would be
some likely outcomes?<br>
<br>
In this case, it wasn't a 500-mile jump to the
Ringworld (that may happen<br>
after the troll gets out of traction). It was a fall
of about 800 feet, in<br>
which a secondary parachute opened at about 100 feet
up. He was wearing<br>
full plate mail and carrying a greatsword and troll
maul. According to my<br>
reckoning, both of his legs are not only broken, but
are effectively maimed<br>
- although luckily for him, he's in the best hospital
in a high-magic<br>
world. Does anyone think that that's unreasonable?
Because I suspect that<br>
I'm going to get a lot of arguments on this one.<br>
<br>
Also, do you think that his leg armor would survive
the fall?<br>
<br>
->Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Styopa <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:styopa1@gmail.com"
href="/mc/compose?to=styopa1@gmail.com">styopa1@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> All credit to Niven. He's an intelligent fellow,
and it's not casting any<br>
> aspersions on him to simply say that the math
behind a ringworld is<br>
> extraordinarily complex, a nearly-unique frame of
reference, and one could<br>
> spend - especially in 1970, when Babbage's
Children were barely toddlers -<br>
> much of one's life down the rabbit-hole of
computations trying to "get it<br>
> right". Personally, I'm much happier that Mr.
Niven DIDN'T do so, and<br>
> instead actually wrote the book, physics-warts
and all.<br>
><br>
> Frankly it's a fun exercise, and has provided
some entertaining<br>
> discussions between myself, and people who know
more about physics than me<br>
> - actual rocket scientists, some of them. One
(probably more usefully)<br>
> spends most of his day working with the physics
of golf balls. (Well, I<br>
> often do as well, but not to the MATHEMATICS of
them. Mine is a<br>
> more....experimental...approach, using lots of
profanity.)<br>
><br>
> The fact is that (unless for some reason my posts
didn't make it to these<br>
> lists) I've proven with reasonable accuracy that
our Armored Troll would<br>
> fall the 500 miles in 406-some seconds (in a
vacuum), and would hit at<br>
> 000's of miles per hour. Certainly, he'd hit
terminal velocity before<br>
> that, but he would MOST CERTAINLY impact with a
most-terminal of velocities<br>
> - probably several hundred miles per hour.<br>
><br>
> Oh, and re the 'atmosphere' and 'spill walls' -
yes, the point observed is<br>
> accurate. The height of the walls DIRECTLY
impacts the atmospheric<br>
> densities on the surface of the ring. Assuming
as physics-shorthand that<br>
> the 1g force in the revolving frame of reference
is uniform, the<br>
><br>
> I'm NOT an atmospheric scientist, nor do I know
any. I'd speculate<br>
> however that:<br>
> - in this very odd frame of reference, I couldn't
find any data on the<br>
> surface cross section of liquids, but I *suspect*
that it would be a<br>
> shallow parabola, possibly a hyperbola. But for
this I'm just going to<br>
> assume it's uniform in effect at the surface,
because in any case I suspect<br>
> a varying pressure effect laterally would anyway
be homogenized by the air<br>
> shifting around anyway. For this model, assume
the cross-section of the<br>
> atmosphere height is horizontal (to someone on
the ring-surface).<br>
> - ANYWAY, I checked against atmospheric height
and surface pressure for<br>
> Venus, Mars, and Earth... just to see. It turns
out there's a fairly<br>
> straight log-function that describes the
relationship. For Mars (atmos<br>
> height ~25km) = surface pressure is 600 pascals.
Earth (~100km)<br>
> 101kilopascals. Venus (~250km) 9 megapascals.
Assuming that the<br>
> atmospheric behavior is the same when
extrapolated linearly, a 500km-high<br>
> side wall means probably 100 megapascals....or
the pressure of water at<br>
> 10000m depth (yes, 10km).<br>
> The point of this atmospheric diversion?<br>
> To illustrate only that the 500mile spillwalls
DON'T necessarily mean it's<br>
> atmosphere 'all the way up'. In fact, given the
quality of the Ringworld<br>
> Engineers, it would make sense that they would
OVER engineer the spillwalls<br>
> to defend against pretty much anything that would
'cost' the structure<br>
> airloss, if they could, so 500 mile sidewalls
(800km) still still might<br>
> only mean 100km atmosphere height.<br>
><br>
> Simple enough...except for our trollish friend.<br>
><br>
> Because this means that at least 7/8ths of his
'fall' from the edge (from<br>
> the PoV of the surface), or of his fling-sideways
(from the PoV of an<br>
> outsider watching), is in vacuum....meaning he's
going to 'hit' atmosphere<br>
> at 000's of mph, relative.<br>
><br>
> Taking into account the atmosphere, then,
suggests that he would fall most<br>
> of the way without atmospheric hindrance, until
he hits atmosphere at<br>
> something like Mach 7, and really doesn't enjoy
the next few moments.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Sven Lugar <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
ymailto="mailto:vikingjarl@gmail.com"
href="/mc/compose?to=vikingjarl@gmail.com">vikingjarl@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Ringworld is based on Larry Niven's book of
the same name. I came to<br>
>> know him fairly well back in the days when we
both going to Cons & to<br>
>> English Regency Dancing events. He always
struck me as very stringent in<br>
>> using his science in books. I remember an
occasion of him discussing the<br>
>> physics of it & also mentioning that it
was based on the work of Dyson (of<br>
>> the "Dyson Sphere concept"). So I suspect
that he is probably correct in<br>
>> his assumptions to make the concept work.
Perhaps someone who is more<br>
>> versed in these things can shed some light on
this.<br>
>><br>
>> Sven<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Peter Maranci - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! <a
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