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Yeah, Bjorn is totally right here. I've seen Fiore's system demonstrated by the guy who's recreating it, and the grappling and weapons use are pretty seamlessly integrated. The manual even, IIRC, includes a supposed technique for grappling a mounted warrior and throwing him from the horse.<div><br></div><div>Andrew E. Larsen </div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 12, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Bjørn Are Stølen wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> Well, I'm easy to ask :)<br> One of the things that IMHO differs most between roleplay-melee and real life medieval/chinese/japaneese melee involving melee-weapons, is how integrated grappeling is in the fencing. It's only in modern foil/japaneese kendo or modern european re-enactment-fighting/american SCA that (for instance) swordplay is separated from grappeling. Only one german longsword-manual from 14/15th century leaves wrestling out of his manual. Here is a link to Fiore di Liberi, the italian dude whose system I've been attempting to understand the past 8 years. He separates fighting into "Giokko lago" and "Giokko stretto" (long-play and short-play), and note how his manual shows far less long-play-techniques than short-play techniques, and how throws, disarms, arm-breaks etc. is not only common, but allmost preferred to the more chaotic, speedy and chanse-ridden "long-play".<br> <br> <a href="http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Liberi.htm">http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Liberi.htm</a><br> <br>> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:57:33 -0800<br>> From: <a href="mailto:royce@efn.org">royce@efn.org</a><br>> To: <a href="mailto:runequest@rpgreview.net">runequest@rpgreview.net</a><br>> Subject: [Runequest] Grappling Gratitude<br>> <br>> Greetings,<br>> Thank you for the helpful suggestions on grappling. It was especially<br>> interesting to hear about the differences between modern and medieval<br>> wrestling. Please feel free to share even more on the subject. :-)<br>> Sincerely,<br>> Asher Royce<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Runequest mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Runequest@rpgreview.net">Runequest@rpgreview.net</a><br>> <a href="http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net">http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net</a><br> <br><hr>Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_1:092010" target="_new">with what you do online.</a><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Runequest mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:Runequest@rpgreview.net">Runequest@rpgreview.net</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net">http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net</a></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>