[Runequest] Runequest Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4

Steve Perrin steve.perrin at gmail.com
Mon May 6 17:56:42 EST 2013


In the movie Bridge on the River Kwai, the WIlliam Holden character is 
going to jump into the area of the Bridge with some commandos. He is 
told that they aren't going to give him any practice jumps because 
there's as good a chance of dying on your first jump as your 100th. No 
idea how authentic this is.

Steve Perrin

On 5/5/2013 8:15 PM, Daniel wrote:
> You might get some answers as well from
> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/RingworldRPG/
> There is at least one game going on from some members of that group.
> Daniel
>
> --- On *Sun, 5/5/13, runequest-request at rpgreview.net 
> /<runequest-request at rpgreview.net>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: runequest-request at rpgreview.net
>     <runequest-request at rpgreview.net>
>     Subject: Runequest Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4
>     To: runequest at rpgreview.net
>     Date: Sunday, May 5, 2013, 7:00 PM
>
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>     Today's Topics:
>
>        1. Re: Fact check (Peter Maranci)
>
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Message: 1
>     Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 20:14:24 -0400
>     From: Peter Maranci <pmaranci at gmail.com
>     </mc/compose?to=pmaranci at gmail.com>>
>     To: RuneQuest Rules <runequest at rpgreview.net
>     </mc/compose?to=runequest at rpgreview.net>>
>     Subject: Re: [Runequest] Fact check
>     Message-ID:
>        
>     <CAHk=cBAfyuQSBMsF4W4kdOnZrfTWh_yO7mMYH5dWsF9o8wfK4g at mail.gmail.com </mc/compose?to=cBAfyuQSBMsF4W4kdOnZrfTWh_yO7mMYH5dWsF9o8wfK4g at mail.gmail.com>>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>     Sorry to bring this up, but the issue is escalating and I could
>     use some
>     insight from people who've actually parachuted. In the last
>     session the
>     great troll had a couple of extra-large parachutes made, by a talented
>     tailor who had never been introduced to the concepts of parachutes
>     before
>     (he's from a universe in which there is considerably less gravity than
>     most).
>
>     The troll has never seen a parachute landing. His sole exposure to
>     anyone
>     who HAD was a few seconds of grabbing a parachute off a WWII plane
>     that was
>     under fire, and then a few seconds of combat while he killed the
>     paratrooper who was fighting to keep his parachute.
>
>     Here's the question: how hard it is to make your first parachute
>     jump with
>     absolutely no training or experience? What would be some likely
>     outcomes?
>
>     In this case, it wasn't a 500-mile jump to the Ringworld (that may
>     happen
>     after the troll gets out of traction). It was a fall of about 800
>     feet, in
>     which a secondary parachute opened at about 100 feet up. He was
>     wearing
>     full plate mail and carrying a greatsword and troll maul.
>     According to my
>     reckoning, both of his legs are not only broken, but are
>     effectively maimed
>     - although luckily for him, he's in the best hospital in a high-magic
>     world. Does anyone think that that's unreasonable? Because I
>     suspect that
>     I'm going to get a lot of arguments on this one.
>
>     Also, do you think that his leg armor would survive the fall?
>
>     ->Peter
>
>
>     On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com
>     </mc/compose?to=styopa1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     > All credit to Niven.  He's an intelligent fellow, and it's not
>     casting any
>     > aspersions on him to simply say that the math behind a ringworld is
>     > extraordinarily complex, a nearly-unique frame of reference, and
>     one could
>     > spend - especially in 1970, when Babbage's Children were barely
>     toddlers -
>     > much of one's life down the rabbit-hole of computations trying
>     to "get it
>     > right".  Personally, I'm much happier that Mr. Niven DIDN'T do
>     so, and
>     > instead actually wrote the book, physics-warts and all.
>     >
>     > Frankly it's a fun exercise, and has provided some entertaining
>     > discussions between myself, and people who know more about
>     physics than me
>     > - actual rocket scientists, some of them.  One (probably more
>     usefully)
>     > spends most of his day working with the physics of golf balls. 
>     (Well, I
>     > often do as well, but not to the MATHEMATICS of them.  Mine is a
>     > more....experimental...approach, using lots of profanity.)
>     >
>     > The fact is that (unless for some reason my posts didn't make it
>     to these
>     > lists) I've proven with reasonable accuracy that our Armored
>     Troll would
>     > fall the 500 miles in 406-some seconds (in a vacuum), and would
>     hit at
>     > 000's of miles per hour.  Certainly, he'd hit terminal velocity
>     before
>     > that, but he would MOST CERTAINLY impact with a most-terminal of
>     velocities
>     > - probably several hundred miles per hour.
>     >
>     > Oh, and re the 'atmosphere' and 'spill walls' - yes, the point
>     observed is
>     > accurate.  The height of the walls DIRECTLY impacts the atmospheric
>     > densities on the surface of the ring.  Assuming as
>     physics-shorthand that
>     > the 1g force in the revolving frame of reference is uniform, the
>     >
>     > I'm NOT an atmospheric scientist, nor do I know any.  I'd speculate
>     > however that:
>     > - in this very odd frame of reference, I couldn't find any data
>     on the
>     > surface cross section of liquids, but I *suspect* that it would be a
>     > shallow parabola, possibly a hyperbola.  But for this I'm just
>     going to
>     > assume it's uniform in effect at the surface, because in any
>     case I suspect
>     > a varying pressure effect laterally would anyway be homogenized
>     by the air
>     > shifting around anyway.  For this model, assume the
>     cross-section of the
>     > atmosphere height is horizontal (to someone on the ring-surface).
>     > - ANYWAY, I checked against atmospheric height and surface
>     pressure for
>     > Venus, Mars, and Earth... just to see.  It turns out there's a
>     fairly
>     > straight log-function that describes the relationship.  For Mars
>     (atmos
>     > height ~25km) = surface pressure is 600 pascals. Earth (~100km)
>     > 101kilopascals. Venus (~250km) 9 megapascals. Assuming that the
>     > atmospheric behavior is the same when extrapolated linearly, a
>     500km-high
>     > side wall means probably 100 megapascals....or the pressure of
>     water at
>     > 10000m depth (yes, 10km).
>     > The point of this atmospheric diversion?
>     > To illustrate only that the 500mile spillwalls DON'T necessarily
>     mean it's
>     > atmosphere 'all the way up'.  In fact, given the quality of the
>     Ringworld
>     > Engineers, it would make sense that they would OVER engineer the
>     spillwalls
>     > to defend against pretty much anything that would 'cost' the
>     structure
>     > airloss, if they could, so 500 mile sidewalls (800km) still
>     still might
>     > only mean 100km atmosphere height.
>     >
>     > Simple enough...except for our trollish friend.
>     >
>     > Because this means that at least 7/8ths of his 'fall' from the
>     edge (from
>     > the PoV of the surface), or of his fling-sideways (from the PoV
>     of an
>     > outsider watching), is in vacuum....meaning he's going to 'hit'
>     atmosphere
>     > at 000's of mph, relative.
>     >
>     > Taking into account the atmosphere, then, suggests that he would
>     fall most
>     > of the way without atmospheric hindrance, until he hits
>     atmosphere at
>     > something like Mach 7, and really doesn't enjoy the next few
>     moments.
>     >
>     >
>     > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Sven Lugar <vikingjarl at gmail.com
>     </mc/compose?to=vikingjarl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     >>  Ringworld is based on Larry Niven's book of the same name. I
>     came to
>     >> know him fairly well back in the days when we both going to
>     Cons & to
>     >> English Regency Dancing events. He always struck me as very
>     stringent in
>     >> using his science in books. I remember an occasion of him
>     discussing the
>     >> physics of it & also mentioning that it was based on the work
>     of Dyson (of
>     >> the "Dyson Sphere concept"). So I suspect that he is probably
>     correct in
>     >> his assumptions to make the concept work. Perhaps someone who
>     is more
>     >> versed in these things can shed some light on this.
>     >>
>     >> Sven
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
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>     >
>
>
>     -- 
>     Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com </mc/compose?to=pmaranci at gmail.com>
>     Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
>     The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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