[Runequest] [SPAM] Re: ***SPAM*** Armour weight/enc

Sven Lugar vikingjarl at gmail.com
Mon Nov 2 12:45:05 EST 2009


Exactly, Steve! Which is why exceptions get talked about & remembered 
because they are exceptions. I also know what peak physical condition it 
required. Not everybody becomes a SEAL, Recon, Green-weanie, etc. Just a 
small fraction of a percent.  Chris's re-enactor buddy can point to the 
rare exceptions but as I have experienced they are exceptions. Running 
in medieval armor is a killer as I can attest. I know the extremes of 
performance & even the best of us will wear out. Even though I was in 
shape enough to hump a pack & gear for a couple of days at the jog 
through the jungles on little rations, a 10 minute run in North Milanese 
transition plate with a fight at the end of it wiped me out even though 
I had been on a healthy diet. Perhaps I was not clear in my comparison 
so I hope this makes it more obvious.

Steve Perrin wrote:
> Metal Plate Armor has one characteristic that modern combat gear 
> doesn't, possibly including modern armor. It doesn't allow any air 
> onto the body that wasn't already heated up by exertion already. It's 
> not the weight, it's the circulation. Moslem soldiers in the Crusades 
> did very fine with light armor. They knew how to build to let some air 
> circulate. The demo I am referencing was at the 3rd DunDraCon, about 
> 1978. Metal armor was already pretty common. Most everyone had at 
> least chain or scale over padding. And that padding is no help to 
> circulation, either.
>
> Sean and his soldier buddies in the early 70s in 'Nam were at the 
> height of the no armor doctrine in military combat wear. However hot 
> the air was in the jungle, it was at least circulating past your skin. 
> In armor, you bake.
>
> Steve
>
> Sven Lugar wrote:
>> And Steve that was in the day when SCA armor requirements were "a 
>> Helm - 18 guage or better steel" period end of sentence - even before 
>> basketball pads were required. (Yes, the misspelling of gauge is a 
>> deliberate. I'm copying what was written then.) Boy were we dumb 
>> then! I still have pictures of Steve & me from then.
>>
>> However, I did lead 12 fighters in full transition plate steel armour 
>> in a 9 minute fast run around the swamp & up the backside of the hill 
>> (approximately 7/8s of a mile) at Glen Helen park in 1980?? at the 
>> first Glen Helen War. We smacked so hard into the rear of the Aten 
>> army & they never saw us coming. We took out most of their army. No 
>> one It was muggy & in the high 90's & no one dropped from heat or had 
>> problems keeping up. Of course we weren't on a 14th ce peasants diet 
>> either. From personal experience I did 2-1/2 tours in very hot & 
>> humid terrain during the early 70's & we could hustle our buns (often 
>> at a dog trot back to the extraction point) all day & most of the 
>> night long for days on end without dropping despite carrying gear, 
>> weapons & ammo on us. In comparison Armour is lighter & better 
>> distributed weight wise than modern gear. These are notable 
>> exceptions to what most folk can take that have gotten remarked upon 
>> because they were unusual. Steve is quite correct in on how fatiguing 
>> it can get in a fight.
>>
>> My conclusion, yes there are exceptions to any case, but in general 
>> you'll have a good balanced game sticking by the fatigue rules that 
>> remain generally accurate.
>>
>> Steve Perrin wrote:
>>> You really don't have to go through such extremes. Just be part of 
>>> an SCA demo in full armor in an inside venue for 10 minutes. You'll 
>>> feel like you are in a steam room of a cruiser during the battle of 
>>> Manila Bay. (The only American casualty during that battle was an 
>>> engineer who died of heat exhaustion, wearing a t-shirt and bell 
>>> bottoms)
>>>
>>> Been there, done that.
>>>
>>> Steve Perrin
>>>
>>> David Smart wrote:
>>>> Actually, I use the same fatigue rules as you do and imposed the 
>>>> same heat/humidity-based changes on fatigue when one of my player 
>>>> groups moved into a tropical jungle environment near my world's 
>>>> equator.
>>>>
>>>> If your friend really wants to put his ideas to the test, perhaps 
>>>> he'll agree to wearing his full armor suit in a wet sauna for 5 
>>>> solid minutes while jogging in place and raising his live steel 
>>>> sword and shield over his head every three seconds for the entire 5 
>>>> minutes...after 1 month of eating a 14th century diet.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I give him about 90 seconds (about 8 RQ rounds).
>>>>
>>>> Apologies if I seem a bit snippy but I've found that most 
>>>> reenactors have very little idea as to what the realities of 
>>>> medieval life were despite the plethora of research material 
>>>> available in print and on the Internet.
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
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